42. RFP Network Crossover Series Part 4: IFB missions vs. Biblical missions w/ Mike and Jen Peters

And here we go. And here we go. And here we go. And here we go. And here we go. I believe you were one of the actual first guests that Nathan was going through Spain and sat down with you. trapping myself in the car so I could just listen to it. Like, I'm not, I'm working over here, but it was so good. It was so good. So we're excited to have you guys with us today. Same for us too. I listen to you guys all the time and I have to make a small confession if I could. This is different for me today, hearing your voices at normal speed. When I listen to your podcast, it's normally at speed and a half, maybe double, but that's with every podcast I listen to. She hates it. So when I'm by myself, that's how fast I listen to it. And, uh, you know, so it'll be a different thing for me today. There are, there are two podcasts that I listen to at speed and a half and it is the Al Mohler, the briefing podcast. Anytime I listen to James White, I have to put him on. Sometimes I put James White on two and a half, two times speed because he's so pedantic when he talks and he's so slow. So I have to give him, I mean, he's a three hour show anyway, so I've got to cut it down somehow. I think it's so rude. I think it's a reflection of how you want me to speak. I'm just like, whatever. You know, my brain's in a hurry. I cannot help it. Yeah, it's rude. But, but I listened to Al Mohler without it really, it sounds weird to me because I'm so used to his voice faster, but, uh, yeah. So, well, let's jump right into it. Uh, why don't you guys give us sort of your background, where you're from, where you went to Bible college at, how you met brief story. Um, and then sort of tell us about how you guys got involved in missions. Was that something that was beginning in your life at the beginning? Was this a calling during college? What, what, what sort of got y'all there to the point you're at now? Yeah, for sure. Um, well, um, I guess we can go back as far as I can recall in relation to missions. Um, I grew up for a while in San Antonio, Texas. And, uh, I remember being specifically, uh, 11 year old kid, uh, during our missions conference there and independent fundamental Baptist church, you know, um, and the, uh, the, uh, youth department put on, you know, the kids that wrote with me, they put on a skit or a little play theater, whatever about missions. And without getting into the whole story, it gripped my heart incredibly, um, burdened for, for, for, for being, being a missionary for, for going overseas and preaching the gospel. I didn't know the context or what that might look like. Specifically at the moment, I was burdened for the country of Pakistan and the Arab Arabic peoples. But, uh, you know, things changed as I got older. And, uh, the idea when you tell your buddies at school, Hey, I'm going to be a missionary. And they kind of laugh at you and tease you a little bit. And so got a little self-conscious about that. And as I got older, um, growing up in an independent fundamental Baptist church, you get these missionaries that come in and, and I don't want to stereotype or broad brush, but a commonplace thing is you've got this missionary couple with about 10 kids and they all wear matching clothes and they all play an instrument or at least a violin and they sing together and they're just so frumpy looking. And I remember being a teenager going, if that's what this is all about, count me out. No way, Jose. Um, so that was kind of my first, but you know, even, even in all that, I mean, I think I was, you know, without telling too much of the story, I think this is relevant to say, I really love baseball. Um, diehard Chicago Cubs fan when I was a teenager. Uh, and so I was convinced that, you know, we didn't grow up very well to do or anything, um, single parent home. And I thought if I could just play baseball professionally and have enough money, I will be a happy person. And actually as a 19 year old kid, I was meeting with a scout from the Minnesota twins. Um, I just, I literally met him door knocking, no joke. And, uh, anyways, when he, he told, he told me and my partner, my soul hunting partner, he's like, yeah, I'm on scout for the twins. And I was like, okay, this old man, he's senile, but nobody's talking about. He's spinning yarns. He goes into his back room. We're in his living room. He comes out with, uh, two world series rings from the twins on his fingers. And he goes, you believe me now? And he took out photo albums of, of guys that he had signed into the league. And I was freaking out, you know, I'm like, this is my, this is my big chance. Kirby pocket. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I was, I remember sitting on this man's, uh, his name was Ellsworth Brown. I remember sitting on his couch in his living room, talking to him about baseball and he was going to bring me to work out with some of the college, uh, teams he was looking at and, uh, he was scout. So, but I remember sitting there and I remember the Holy spirit just, just nagging me going like, there's nothing sinful about baseball, but if I've called you to something else, you can't do anything else. And that thought never, I was never able to shake that for, you know, from the time I was 11, 12 years old until the time I was about 19, 20, when we went to Bible college, my, my youth, uh, sorry, my, uh, Christian school principal convinced me to go for a semester. And I know that whole song and dance too, but still God can paint straight lines with crooked sticks. And so I went there and got right with God again. And, um, just said, Lord, if this is what you want from me and all things considered in an IFB movement, God still used that situation to just reclaim my heart and get me to follow his will. I've got a question, uh, Mike, are you considered a modern day Billy Sunday, uh, sort of a baseball star turned into a preacher? I, I will not say that. No, I have no idea how far I would have gone. I may not have even gotten anywhere, but it was just my heart's intention. So I'm not going to pretend that I was this, uh, big to do. Gotcha. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm sure all of our listeners are wondering, is this going to be the next Billy Sunday? I don't know. Uh, jumping on top of pulpits. I mean, going crazy. Uh, yeah. So Jen, what's your story? Where, how did you become a part of Mike's life? Well, let's see here. I grew up in church my whole life. Um, parents joined our church, uh, right outside of Chicago. Uh, just before I was born, my parents were expecting me and, uh, born and raised there, they had a elementary school, high school, college. So I never left, um, anything. I just stayed right there. And, um, I met Mike in college. We really weren't, we really weren't in the same friend group. Uh, he's three years older than me. So in college, that's a big deal. And, um, yeah, we just started talking his, uh, end of his junior year, my fresh, no, my, I don't know my freshman year, maybe it was, or senior. I don't know. Anyways. And, uh, that's about it. Met each other. And well, you were, you as an individually, though, you were burdened for missions as a kid as well. Well, right. Of course in your head, you were already thinking along those lines. When I was, I believe I was 11 years old when I went forward at an invitation and surrendered my life to be a missionary. And naturally my mind, I'm actually, um, naturally in my mind, when you think missionary, you think third world country. And so, um, my, my desire was always third world missions. That was always when you think that that's, and I'm fine with that. Like I'm the kind of person who's, I don't need electricity, no makeup. Like that's 100% my, my jam. I couldn't do that. And, uh, naturally Spain is one of the most, you know, first world countries. And so, um, I think for me, actually, this might be skipping ahead in the story a bit, but I think the whole concept of coming to Spain was, I mean, wonderful. Cause that's what God had for us. So that's exciting, but it was definitely not what I was hoping for. It was, I was looking for the, the typical missionary out in the boonies, sweep your, sweep your dirt floor and your mud hut. Kind of thing. See, that's the way I always thought about it too. Like to this day, if I'm watching like a documentary and they do like an aerial shot in Canada, I'm like, they got roads in Canada. It's not real. Well, it's funny. It's not real missions. Well, I have a friend and she said to me one day, she was like, I cannot imagine living in Spain. Like, do you just ride your bike with your flowing dress and your, your, your, your baguette in your basket? I was like, I drove my kids to school in a Toyota this morning. Like I didn't, everybody thinks of the European cliches, but we don't, but I mean, but something on a little bit more of a serious note, I was talking to a friend of mine, a missionary in Tanzania, and she was telling me one day, she said, you know, we see thousands of people saved in a year's time. She said, so people are hungry for the gospel, but when it comes to individuals and relationships, it's practically non-existent. The people can't read. They can't write. What are they talking about? They're talking about giving birth. They're talking about walking to the water to get literally the water to bring home to, to wash dishes. And for me, it's the complete opposite. It's, I can have very profound conversations with anybody I want to, but as far as the gospel is concerned, it is so dry and it's such a long effort to go and to go and to go and to go. So it's definitely not what my idea of missions was, but this is obviously where God has placed us and we're, couldn't be more thrilled to be here. That's great. So we wanted to get, I think we sort of foregone as far as like what, what the topic of today was. We wanted to sort of like contrast the ideas of IFB missions or the way missions is portrayed and taught and practiced and within the IFB movement and maybe sort of a look at biblical missions. And so you guys sort of talked a little bit about your background in missions, but now, unless James has something that he wanted to say, you guys, you, you met at Providence. It was there a big missions emphasis there or did you, let me ask you this. Did you go to that college with sort of already deciding that you were going to do missions or did that happen while you were at Providence? That for me, I mean, well, you were a secondary ed major and I was my, let's see, what did I go for? I think I just came as a gen ed student for the first semester and then I switched my major to missions. So, so the, the, the emphasis was very missional in the sense of, you know, door to door, visitation, soul winning, et cetera, going to a foreign field and, you know, preaching the gospel. So it was very glorified that concept. We had regular missionaries in all the time in church, in college chapel, talking about their fields, et cetera. Our missions teacher was a former missionary for 15 years in South America. So, you know, we had a lot of contacts there. So it was definitely something that was pushed for and, and desired, considered to be a desirable calling. But the funny thing is, is that, and I don't know if this is true for every Christian college and the fundamental Baptist movement, but at Providence, I think there, out of all the missions, major students that were there, there was probably 20 or 30. Um, we were the only, me, no, you weren't, you weren't a student, you weren't a major in that, in that course, but it was me and like one other guy were what I would be able to consider socially normal. Everybody else was socially awkward. Yes. I was thinking this, I don't know how, we never really hit on this, but like there were, it was, I don't want to use the word clicks, but it was sort of like there were certain majors that were the popular majors. The cool kids didn't do admissions majors. Right. And so at our, at Champion, it was, it was youth ministry. The majority of those that were at Champion were majoring in youth ministry. Then you had the pastoral majors and then you had very, it was, and it was a very small number of students that were missions majors. Yeah. And I think, man, I think this is my opinion. So please forgive me if it, if it's not true in your experience for y'all listening, but I think because youth pastors and pastors, assistant pastors, evangelists in that movement were looked at as celebrities and big shots. So everybody wanted to aspire to be that. But when it came to missionaries, missionaries were quote unquote, moochinaries, the needy people, the, you know, 10 kids, violins and matching outfits people. So the celebrity status didn't exist for missionaries. So all the socially awkward kids were like cool missions and all the cool kids were like, nope, not me. Well, even the joke was, if you can't do anything in ministry, become a missionary. Like that's what everybody always, that was always a joke. If you stink at other stuff, just be a missionary. But you know, it's funny. So I grew up at the church, the school, like I knew nothing but, um, Northwest and Providence my whole life. And because I knew what, um, you know, what the mission's emphasis was, I actually thought because I was 100% positive I was going to be a missionary. I actually had two different conversations with our pastor. One was, well, if you're going to be a missionary, that means you have to marry a missionary because women aren't to be missionaries. And if that were to be true, then I needed to prove it from the Bible, but that women couldn't be missionaries unless you were married to a missionary. So I was called to my husband, apparently not, um, the mission field. And then the other thing was, is that I didn't actually think that Providence had a good missions system. So I shouldn't say, I didn't think it had a good one. I should say better that I believe that there was a stronger one out there. And this is actually the funny part. I went to counsel with my pastor when I was a senior in high school because I wanted to go to OBC. Oklahoma. Vineyard. Well, because I mean, from where I'm from, they are the missions college and that's what I wanted to do. So I thought if I'm going to be a missionary, I need to go to a missions college. And then I was told that the college where I was at was set up for those of us who are from the system. Got to keep them in the crate from the cradle to the grave. Got to keep them in the. That's right. But I was very hardcore about being a missionary for sure. Yeah, you were. And you were a good kid and you were definitely, you cared about people and you were just trying to do God's will with all that. And the thing that with our missions, the way that you mentioned, John, the way that we understood missions coming from that environment. Here's the thing when we decided that, you know, as a couple, you know, haven't been married and had a child and decided, you know, what are we going to do? What does God want us to do? And all that. And we knew missions was a thing and we decided, oh, it's Spain. And after all that was decided and we spoke to our pastor and our missions director, and I'm using air quotes for those of you listening, missions director. I'm air quoting again to really emphasize how much it wasn't really a missions director. Just the guy who was supposed to manage that. And we told him, we're like, man, we're quitting our jobs. We're going to raise money and go be missionaries in Spain. And he goes, that's great. And he goes here, I found six photocopied pages off the internet of Austin Gardner's missions manual. And here you go. Good luck. When you figure it out, take good notes and bring it back to us here at Providence and we'll teach it in the missions classes. And slap on the back and that was it. We had no idea the cost of living. We had no idea about health insurance, life insurance. My wife was five months pregnant when we left to go to the field. We had no idea how any of that was going to work out. We had no idea about fundraising. So I downloaded or I bought Austin Gardner's book. And for those of you listening, Vision Baptist Missions, I bought his book to just show us. Yeah, thumbs down on that book as well. I bought his book to help us figure out what to do to raise money. So we had zero, zero, zero, infinity zero help as far as preparation mentally, spiritually, emotionally, practically, financially, as far as coming to Spain. We had no idea. And it was just, I mean, we counseled with our pastor one time in the process of three years from the time we started raising funds to go to the field. And then the time between that start time and the time we arrived. So we had one meal with him to talk to him about that. And we did make very, very foolish decisions off of things that we were told to do. Like we dropped our social security. Oh, yeah. We were told to opt out of social security. You're a man of God. You don't need government. Then being five months pregnant, we had the best insurance in the States at the time. But we were told if you're in the board, like this all gets handled and taken care of. So we dropped our insurance, obviously. And anybody knows who you sign up with a new insurance company and takes a minimum of 12 months before they even recognize anything that was a preexisting case. And so pregnancy is obviously preexisting. So what were we supposed to do? So we actually had to go on state aid because we had no health insurance. Yeah, we were on health insurance. And we found out later that most of the younger staff members were on that as well. Oh, yeah, from our church, for sure, on WIC and food stamps and stuff while they're working 60, 70 hours a week on staff. But, yeah, you guys know what I'm talking about. And I will say this about the missions board. A missions board is a helpful thing. And, you know, I get it. It's not a biblical mandated thing like a local church. But it is a helpful entity that can help to equip you. So our church claimed to have our sending church, the church that we went to Bible college at, claimed to have a missions board. And that was going to help us logistically get to the field. And essentially all they did was deposit our support money into our bank account. And that was it. That was it. They didn't claim us on their taxes. We had to pay all the money that we were raising for missions work and to come overseas and plant the church and all that was looked at legally by the IRS as if it was our income when it wasn't. When we used it for ministry expenses. But we had to pay taxes on it because our local church didn't claim us as, what is it called, dependents? Yeah. Yeah. So what was the point of the board to begin with? Just to say that you had a board. It's status. We had 350 missionary photos on the halls of our church walls. Okay. I guarantee you out of a church of a thousand people like ours, if any one of those missionaries sat down by any random church member on a bus, we'd have no clue who it was. It was just a status symbol to go. We support 350 missionaries a monthly basis, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we've seen thousands of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah saved. It's a status symbol. It's bragging. Every missionary. It's just for bragging rights. Well, and every missionary financially receives $50. 50 bucks a month. But we. We, because we were graduates. We were graduates from the Bible College. And I'm not trying to be snarky here. I'm just saying this is how, in my opinion, backward, the mission system is in the movement. And it may not be true for every Baptist church. I'm not trying to broad brush, of course. If this wasn't your experience, then please don't be offended. But it was just about, for us as graduates, we got 75 bucks a month from our sending church. The church that she was born and raised at. The church that I was at for a decade. And that was a big deal, apparently. So that's why you had a missions board. That's why you supported umpteen missionaries for pennies a month. But what made me. So that you could tell your friends. I think. Look what I'm doing. Right. But I think, for me, I was hook, line, and sinker. I didn't even question 75. I thought that was generous. I didn't. I wasn't. Of course, you know, we're not in it for the money. So that was never a thing for me. But little things I started seeing. And here's the other thing. I was. I'm not a rebel at all. Like, that's not my MO. But I started things. I would purposely be blinded. Because I didn't want to see any problems. I would literally, like, turn away. But certain things I couldn't turn away from. Like, I remember we lost a baby on deputation. It was gruesome. It was. I tell you, you were how far along? 11, 12 weeks? No, it was. It doesn't matter. Yeah, but. Yeah. And we were in North Carolina. No, we were in North Carolina, weren't we? In the middle of nowhere. At some ramshackle prophet's chamber. At some church. I don't remember the name of the town. It was a quite small town. And you went into labor right after we had dinner. Right. At Cabrero one night. And we were on a five-month road trip. We did that consistently. And when we had raised support, we were living on the college campus. And then when we'd do a road trip, we'd literally be on the road living in profits chambers for five months at a time while we raised funds. And it was a cool adventure. But in this sense, I think the stress on us and on mentally, physically just affected you that way. Right, but I think for me, the thing that just blew my mind was there wasn't a message, an email. Our pastor had no idea. A call. No, he knew. My parents obviously said something because they talked about it at church. But there was nothing there. And I just thought that so odd, like a life-changing event just occurred. And then other things, like I remember being told, well, there's not that many churches that believe just like we are, like we do, I should say. And remember, we actually, so we would call people and then say, hey, if you know of any contacts, can we contact them as well? So I remember Mike one time, I mean, this happened often, actually, but I remember one time specifically Mike asked a guy if he was King James Version only. And sometimes we even said KJB only because, of course, that's not a version. That's just the King James Bible. So we would say KJB, KJBO. And the guy was like, well, I use the King James, but I'm not KJB only. And we would turn down meetings for that, right? Yeah, we only went to KJB only churches. That was a prerequisite when I was church hunting. If it wasn't a KJB only church, I didn't even call them. But here's the thing that really blew my mind. So there were not that many. I mean, there's a lot of IFB, but there is not as many that are as staunch as my church is, was, is, and was. Right. And I remember one church we went to, it was in West Virginia, just a great church, independent fundamental Baptist, straight down the line. And I don't even remember the name of the pastor who was there. It was an older missionary man, actually. And he was a Bible distributor for all different countries around the world. It was Charles Keene. He was the guest speaker. Good guy. That's what it was. At least in our experience. Anyways. I just remembered. Thank you. Anyways, he apparently had printed a few different Bibles in languages that had no version similar to the King James Version. So these Bibles had been translated off of, let's say, the NIV or something to that effect. Just so that people could kind of have a very simple version of the gospel in their native tongue. And he was the guest speaker at the conference. And I took a picture with him. And we posted it on Facebook. Put it on social media. Didn't think anything of it. And remember, we only talked to our pastor, I think, twice we said in the two and a half years of being on deputation. Yeah. And the week that we were flying to leave, to go away, we had a three-hour lunch. And that was part of the main conversation was we need to be careful who we're spending our time with because men like that. And I was blown away. Like, it was hard enough to find churches that were similar. Well, this brother, he's not a King James onlyist. And, yeah, so if other people get wind of that and they see your photo with him, they're going to drop you. They're going to drop his board. Now, I mean, they didn't call us about our miscarriage, but I'm going to call you on that photo that you took. That's questionable, son. But I just remember. Because it reflects on me. But I was just sad. It made me sad to think. I'm sorry. Val, you're exactly right. I'm sorry. No, but I was genuinely hurt because this is the only place, like, every teacher, every friend, every person I ever knew came from that location. And it just, I started seeing things and it made me sad, like, but we're trying so hard. Do you have any clue what we're doing? Do you have any clue about? Yeah, nobody really has. And that's what made me genuinely sad. And so I started, like, being hurt, like, actually hurt. And growing up the way that I did, it was always suck it up, deal with it, move on, move forward. They used to, my maiden name was Deal. And they used to call me Bulldog Deal because I was just the sole winner. I did all the things. And she'd nail it down. She'd push people to make a decision. But I was all about all of the things. I truly believed it. And this made my heart sick thinking, I've done so much for so long. And yet this is what, instead of, like, we're praying for you, we love you, go to Spain, we'll see you hopefully in a few years. It was, don't take pictures with this guy. Be careful who you're hanging out with. And I'm like, for two and a half years? That's all you got to say? I was so upset. So it was that way as far as our relationship with our sending church. And I know you asked to compare, to make a contrast between biblical missions and, you know, our experience. But another thing I think that was, for us, we didn't know anybody in Spain when we planned to come over here on our survey trip. Okay, that's what I was wanting to ask was, had you guys ever even visited Spain? Never. Never. It was crazy. No, no. We went on a first. Well, that's what I'm saying. Before we took our survey trip, neither of us had ever been. But at what point was the, what point in the process was the survey trip done? The survey trip was done before we started fundraising, before we quit our secular jobs. We had, just through a series of events, God had put Spain into our heads. We were both already pretty enamored with the Latino culture that we lived in because our city was half Latino, Mexican, Puerto Rican. So, and I know Spain is, and if there are any Spaniards listening, yes, I'm not comparing you to the Central and South Americans. You guys are different, distinct, like the English and the Americans. They're not the same. So, but nonetheless, for us, we thought, somebody mentioned to us, have you thought about Spain? And we said no. And God used that one comment to stick it into our heads. So, what do you do when you don't know what to do or who to ask about what to do about any given topic? You Google it. So, we literally Googled independent fundamental Baptist missionaries in Spain and started emailing them. Like our missions director, air quotes, our missions board, double air quotes, our pastor, I could even air quote that, didn't give us any recommendations. So, we just Googled missionaries that were in Spain and started emailing them, say, hey, can we come see your ministry and the way you live while you're, you know, serving in Spain? And they were all pretty awesome and said, sure. Well, I was going to say, though, it was very difficult because in the two and a half years that we were on deputation, if I counter-cruly, the missions director changed five times. And only one time are we told who it was. So, we'd be sending messages and like, oh, I don't do that job anymore. Yeah, somebody else is the missions director. So, it was just very. It was very willy-nilly. It was just about bragging rights and just to be able to put another notch on your gun or belt or whatever and say, hey, look, we have a director and missions board. Well, you had to go to the survey trip to get the Spaniard toys and the pictures and everything for your table. The display table. Yes, you had to have those things before that. But that was what we did. I mean, we, I guess, and I'm not trying to celebrate us, but we just kind of rolled the dice and said, okay, I guess this is what we're supposed to do. Well, I think if in, in draft comparison, I think one of the biggest things that we would ask other churches or other supporters to consider is, I mean, we've heard everything from, no, I can't support Spain because Spain had their chance back in the 60s. Oh, yeah. We had a church that had us in to present the ministry to Spain, and the pastor told us afterwards. Oh, no, he told me beforehand, actually. He said, I'm not going to support you. Spain had their opportunity with the gospel, and they missed it. Literally told me that in an email. We were told they wouldn't support us because they already had missionaries in Spain and they needed a dot in every country. They actually said that to us. But anyways, my point, though, in all this is that. It's like an investor, like a. Right. Like an art tank investor that says, I can't because it's a conflict of interest. Right. Stupidest, simplest thinking ever. But here's the thing. I mean, 47 million people got one missionary there. That's good. One to 47 million. Good ratio. Wow. If we, if people would consider supporting, I don't know the size of the churches or how much people have to offer, but if people would consider giving to just a handful of missionaries. Support fewer missionaries at a higher amount, practically and relationally, and you will see a bigger difference for the kingdom. Here's the crazy thing. We actually, so I don't want to jump the gun here, but when we lost all of our support back in 18, we went from 70 supporters to nine, right? In just a handful of weeks. But here's the crazy part. The nine that stayed on were still independent fundamental Baptist pastors. And I believe if I'm not mistaken, I think almost all of them had actually come here to visit us. And that's the difference. I mean, the Bible specifically talks about your eye affects your heart. And for you to just jump and just to stop giving off the word of one person, but you actually have no clue. That's what I'm saying. When you give to a missionary, when you understand. More than just an exchange of money for numbers of salvations that he can report. Yeah. It ought to be way deeper than that. So if you could give more to one person, go out to their field, love on that family. They can love on you. Your kids can be pen pals. You look forward to seeing them. I mean, that's the ideal situation right there. But instead to have all of those supporters giving sometimes 25 bucks. Honestly, sometimes you know what I wanted to say because I did our family finances. The year that we moved here, it was a 37% change in money. Just to give you an idea of that. Okay, you'd lose money on the euro to dollar exchange. So if you brought $100 over here, you could cut up $37 and just throw it out the window. That doesn't include the transfer fees or the euro to dollar. Like none of that. And so when people gave you 25 bucks, they almost wanted to say, it's almost not even worth the money for me to exchange it to come here. So when people don't understand that or when we've had people say, how much are you raising? Well, my friends in Mexico, they raise like $1,000. Yeah. When our missions board, we've checked with our missions board, Global Faith Missions in Chattanooga. Shout out. They're good people. And Africa Inland Missions and another mission agency I can't remember the name of. And they're like, oh, for a family your size living in Europe? Oh, yeah, you're going to need to raise a minimum of $8,000 a month just to live an average life in that context and culture. And you tell people that and you're like, holy cow, what? Are you kidding me? It's like, well, yeah, if you're starting a church from zero, you've got to have some kind of capital to put into that project. But all that to say, I think that the people who did come out to see, it was really beautiful. Because even if we don't agree on a lot of things, they were able to be like, no, this is what God's doing. Maybe I don't agree with everything that Peter's have chosen, but God is working here. And how could we stop this? Like, this is what we want our money to go towards. Well, let me say this. The way that you've just described this, and I've never been to Providence. I've never been to Gomez's place. I've never really been very far up north, to be honest with you. But my years of experience in the IFB, as it concerns how I've seen missions done, how I've worked in a church, and how they handled missions in that church, and doing missions conferences and stuff, is on the nose exactly how you've just described it. So I think that it is sort of evident of the movement. And I think the way that you guys have described your experience in being a missionary in that, and I've always thought this. I've always said this is part of the reason of choosing this topic. Because even on my years where I was just about to leave, I was like, has anybody thought that there could be a better way of doing this? Because it's so jacked up. Because I remember when I first started thinking about this, of a guy, an acquaintance I knew out in West Virginia, who was wanting to go to England to be a missionary. And it seemed like every year, oh, we're having him come into our church. And I was like, wait a second. Has he not gone to England yet? Nope. He's still raising support. And he'd come in and be like, where are you at on your support? And he's like, 40%, 60%. I'm like, there's got to be a better way. Why is this the way? Let me add something in here that really frustrates the heck out of me. Think about this. All right? You're trying to raise X amount of dollars to go to your field, that one that you feel God's called you to. And you've got to ping pong around the United States of America and other places to raise that support with your wife and children on the road through all hours of the night. All types of different weather conditions, all kinds of dangers that might even be on the road besides vehicles. Just weird people staying in weird places. My kids have been covered in bedbugs and bites from staying in a pastor's house. Okay? We stayed in a profits chamber that left us diapers as a gift. And you know the label? You know how diapers or other companies, they'll advertise a recent movie on their product. The advertisement on the diapers was Land Before Time Part 1. Okay? That's old. You know? And that kind of thing was typical. One week we drove from the UP to Houston, Texas to Tucson. No joke. Yeah, yeah. And so we were bouncing around all over the United States in all kinds of inclement weather conditions and whatnot, subjected to all that stuff. It should not be. I remember when a good friend of mine, a good friend of mine, okay, had an accident in February. And I believe it was near Mount Airy. And if you all know who I'm talking about, that's good. I'm not going to name him just for his own sake. I love the guy. And his little girl who played with my kids died in his arms from having a car crash on an icy road on a February morning while he was trying to fundraise. That kind of crap shouldn't be commonplace. And it happens often. I think you hit this too in your RFP interview. You really become a politician in that process as well because you're playing politics trying to get the support. Yes. And we're not even talking about the detriment that it does to your own personal life of two-facedness and politicking in the name of Jesus. I'm just talking about the practical stuff of the hardships on family and marriage and child rearing and safety even having to work through a system like that, a system that is absolutely backward and broken. I do have a question. Don't know if you ever experienced this, but if you haven't, that's fine. But if you have, I do want to get your take. I had a pastor one time that said we had some missionaries come through, and he made this statement. He said, we're going to support this man. And then later, when the church took him on for support, he pulled the pastor. So we went out to dinner, and he said, once you leave for the field, let me know, and I'll start supporting you. Yeah, we had that happen. We had that happen lots of times. I'm thinking, what? You just said that you were going to start supporting him, and we changed our budget for it, and then all of a sudden you're not going to support him. Well, right. And again, I understand that sort of mindset of a pastor in the sense that he wants to be a good steward of God's money. But at the same time, where is that pastor's faith in the fact that God has called that missionary family to a certain field, and the pastor's like, no, I'm going to hold on to this cash in case you flake out? Yeah. Who said that you're in charge of God's money? It isn't even you. It's not yours. I'll take it a step further. That's a lie. Why? Because you just presented to the people, they're thinking, oh, they've taken it on. The way they presented it, and I've seen the exact same thing done too, but you just, in secret, changed the terms with the people. That's just dishonest. That's a lie. We're going to have to raise our mission budget by $1,200 because we just took someone else's own, but we're not going to give him that $1,200 until they actually go. In case he doesn't go, which, again, I understand that, but guess what? What that missionary does with the money isn't your problem. Yeah. If you agreed to give him an offering or to take him out for support, it is now God's problem. So give that man the money because you're not giving it to him. You're giving it to God. Yeah. And you show a lack of faith as a pastor. It's God not big enough to take care of it. No. Yeah. Well, I'd say something else. Let me add one more thing. We had a massive love offering when we were in Alabama. Biggest love offering we'd ever received, and these people were so generous. Praise God for the generosity in the IFB movement. From my experience, we experienced so much generosity from most people. There were some tight ones. From the people. The people. The people. Well, that's what I'm saying. Yes. And that's a great clarification because when the pastor handed me this love offering, he goes, he looked me dead in the eye. And before he let go of the envelope, as I was taking it from him, he goes, if you ever leave Spain, you better send us every penny back. It's like, holy cow, man. What in the world? No joke. What are you saying? Well, no. It's just different things as far as contrasting. And honestly, I don't want to sound that we are, for me personally, I'll talk for myself personally. I enjoy deputation. I enjoy getting to meet the people and the pastors. And I really did. Overall, it was a great experience. And so I've had people say, well, I thought you had a great time, so I don't understand why you're complaining now. And I don't really look at it as complaining, but when you are blind to something and you don't know things could be a different way, you just think that this is normal. So in that time, like, yes, I was thrilled, but I didn't realize how many things I was doing that I didn't know I was doing wrong. So many things. But something that I was going to say as far as contrasting goes, so we obviously live in the world of social media and you've got people who are holding you to a specific standard, right? And so they're saying, you know, we want you guys to have a great marriage. We want you to have great children, but don't spend our money at a theme park and don't go on vacation. Don't do any of those things. Don't have a decent car. Right. So I remember right shortly after we got to the field, I had a lady message me and say, very sweetly, she said, hey, listen, she said, I know that you're posting quite a bit of ministry stuff. She said, but don't ever feel like you can't, you know, share personal stuff. She said, look, we like to see the kids and, you know, maybe stuff that you guys are doing. I said, oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Not even a full week later, I got a message from a totally different lady. And let me, let me stop for just a moment. When you say that you're supported by 70 churches, that does not mean 70 churches. That means 70 churches. And let's talk bare minimum. Let's say a hundred people per church. So if those people in the church give even a penny, they feel like they're. They have ownership of what you do with their gift. So we're talking about a minimum of, let's just say 700, 7,000, 70,000 people that feel like they have ownership of you, that they can message you privately and say anything they want. So back to my story. The second lady said to me, she was like, you, you, you share quite often about your family and fun things you do. Do you actually do ministry over there? And I was blown away. I don't even understand. So here's something to throw out. When you love a missionary and when you love what you're supporting, you're in support of them and the decisions they make. And so for example, Mike and I, a few years ago for our 10 year wedding anniversary, we went to Ireland. Do you know how many pictures I posted of Ireland? Not one. Do you know why? Because most people specifically in America think Ireland is just this like grandiose blah, blah, blah. And don't get me wrong. It was nice. I think our tickets cost us 20 euros round trip. It was inexpensive. We shared an Airbnb with another individual and we just walked around town, which was, and basically Ireland was like going from Chicago to, I don't know, Iowa, basically. It was close. It wasn't even a big deal. And, but I can't post those because while you're spending our money. It's like having, like you said, 70 bosses that could all fire you at any given moment. But at 70, you have like at least a hundred plus people. Members of each church. Yeah. And so when you love on a missionary and you love on them and they love you, you're in support of one another. And this, I think is, is a revelatory of the mindset behind the whole system itself, because a lot of folks will look at missionaries as just a spiritual investment program, a portfolio. Like we're going to invest in this country and that country, and hopefully we're going to get the most return. That is the wrong way to look at the kingdom of God. There is no comparison. Listen, if you are, if you are, if you are, if you are, if you are, are, are, are investing just so you can have a return on it and say, oh, well, we did such and such and thus and so. You're doing it for the wrong reasons. It ought to be for the glory of God. And he's going to bring the increase no matter how much you've invested or what you've put your investments into. So that's, that's a frustrating aspect of it. Yeah. And there's so, I really think James, we need, we, we got to do like, we got to have you guys got on the get, because I think that we're just like scratching the surface. I was going to say that because I was going to say that because there's so much that I want to say that I haven't said. Just a little teaser. I hate the term missionary. Please. No one ever refer to me as a missionary. It's not a Bible word and the origins of it are not origins I'd like to be associated with. And if other people want to use the term in modern vernacular today, digging wells, building houses, painting schools, praise the Lord for that kind of service. That is not what I'm doing. So that's a teaser. Let me ask you a question, John, and we may do a part two and try to finish up the rest of these questions. But what, when, when you, or you're now, you're now still missionaries, right? You're still in Spain. You're still serving. I said it. I had to. I had to. Let's do this. It's okay. It's me nitpicking. Please don't feel threatened by that. No, you're good. I don't feel threatened. If you want to use that term, that is okay. I don't mean to be a jerk, but it's just a personal pet peeve. Yeah. It does not matter. So you're still serving over there. You said you lost, you know, 80 or 61 supporters from your mission, from your organization. What do you want me to call you? No, I say, man, my heart is to be a pastor, a church planting pastor. I like church planters. Yeah. I love being a church planter. That is what I'm doing. That is my intention. That is my heart, my passion. My emphasis, our emphasis here is to plant a gospel preaching church. Praise the Lord for other ministries that are not focused on that. But that is what our passion is. And so, and I think if people could start thinking of that when missionaries or whatever they want to call themselves, want to go to a foreign field and preach the gospel, they're not just digging wells and painting buildings. They're preaching the gospel. They're a spiritual warfare that they're placing themselves into, you know, from all sides. And that ought to change the way we view people who go overseas to do preach the gospel. They're not just on a vacation. Okay. They're engaging in tip of the spear, living on the edge of uncertainty type spiritual work. And this is not to make us look good. It's just the nature of what God's called us into. Yeah. So let me ask you this. Where do you get your support from now? I know you said you have a mission board. Is it like a cooperative program? I'm Southern Baptist now. And so we gifted the cooperative program. How do you get support now? And right before you answer that, Jen said earlier that, you know, women missionaries, they're not allowed. You know, you have to marry a man to do it. But in the Southern Baptist world, when you, even in the Southern Baptist, I hear that. But the two biggest offerings we give every year are Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong, which, by the way, are women who are women missionaries who serve the Lord and did things. But we can't just have women people serve. But anyways, sorry, go ahead. Ask God you're called to your husband. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So our support now is we've, you know, we've had to obviously go looking for more like-minded ministries to support us, which we are in definite need of support even now. Um, my wife, uh, has been so used of God to not only be a blessing to our local church here and help, you know, shepherd people's hearts, uh, especially the ladies, um, that she's also practically, um, been a lifesaver for our finances as a family, because after we lost that money, she started to teach there. She was already teaching English as a side hustle just for some neighborhood kids. Um, but then it turned into a full on business with over 200 kids in our house on a weekly basis, uh, for English classes. And if it were not for that, we could not afford to live here. Um, that being said, we are quitting teaching English because the church is moving at such a rhythm right now. There is no, there is no time for us to spend that many hours a week teaching English for us to pay our bills. The church needs direction, care, help, discipleship, et cetera. And that is our heart's passion. And so we're quitting teaching English at the end of the school year in June. And God willing, we're going to find new partners. And I, we are definitely looking for new partnerships with churches, individuals. It doesn't matter. We have a lot of individuals who support us now as individual families that give to the work over here. Praise God for that. That is awesome. Um, so yeah, that's kind of where our supports come from is just trying to, trying to be engaged in intentional relationships with people. And again, I see that with Paul, the apostle, how many times does he reference a bunch of names in his letters, greet so-and-so, kiss so-and-so, tell this to so-and-so. He had a relationship with people in all the places he was at. And that's beautiful. I mean, that's why the Philippians were so generous with him. Yeah. He had a connection with people beyond just, here's a bi-monthly prayer letter with some stats. No, they had a relationship. They loved each other. Okay. He said he grieved in his heart like a mother would over some of these people. That's how close they were. And it's something I think that is very needful and lacking in the modern missions movement. Well, something we've started too, which was your brainchild, was every other month we started doing, we have a private Facebook group that is just for our personal supporters. And then we- Partners. We don't want them to feel like they're just- That's right. That's right. Partners is this kingdom effort together. It's true. Come on, Gina. Get your language right. Not missionaries. I know. Not supporters. There's partners and church planners. Come on. Trust me. This is nothing compared to day-to-day with him. Words mean things. Oh, my word. Anyways, but we'll post like fun photos, just cool things that goes on with our families, because they're our personal supporters. So every other month, we do a FaceTime call. So people can call in. They can ask us questions. We set up a Zoom link. A Zoom link. There it go. And anybody can, anybody, many of our supporters can link in and just chat with us live. Our goal is to be as transparent as possible. So we want to have relationships with these people. I don't want to just do an exchange of goods like it was before, where, like I said, here's a bunch of statistics. We'll take the money and we won't have any other contact besides that. I don't think that's a biblical model. I definitely know it's not healthy, spiritually or relationally. I will say this, not to be, not hyper-spiritual, I think, but we've made several steps that we know that God just can take care of us. I mean, Mike just mentioned that we're stepping away from the academy, which brings in a good amount of our finances. And we have no, like that's ending in four weeks. So that's it. Like that money will no longer be coming in. We just found out from our landlord that we've lived here for six years in this house. We've been in Spain for almost eight years, but six years in this house that he's selling our home. So we have to find a house now. Most of you guys know that we're adopting. So we're at the tail end of bringing home our two baby girls from Liberia. And then on top of all that, there was, so there was something else. Was it the big thing that we had going on? I'm trying to think. There was one more thing. Anyways, long story short. Oh, and Mike's schooling, we just with, with a level of schooling that we had, which was kind of a joke, Mike decided to go back into school and, you know, start from scratch and really get his degree. And so these things that like God has told us clearly adopt, clearly go back to school. Clearly, you know, we have to stay here in Spain or our church is moving forward. Those are all financial things. And we're like, but our money's not changing. But when you, I truly believe like Moses, when God said, put the rod in the water, like do the thing first and then I'll park the water. And that's kind of where we're at. And it's really exciting. Actually. I feel like we're Mike and I were talking the other day. It's like, we feel kind of like we're on these extreme sport players. Not that we're special and people. We're like, we've been playing extreme sports for so long that so often I say to Mike, can we just like play football? Can we just play soccer? Can we just like, just be chill and have like a normal life? But then honestly, if we did that, we wouldn't even know what to do with ourselves. I don't think I'd be okay with that anymore. Or we've been living too much on the edge for the last 10 years that I think if we were into a routine, it would be, I don't know, it just wouldn't feel right. Like the amount of times I can honestly tell you where we were crying saying, no joke between Spain and America, we had $18 in our bank account, 18 collective, including savings and everything, 18. And yet, and yet God provided and not even just financially, just medically and with gas and with electric bills and with our rent and with people showing up and bringing food, like just God has done some of the most amazing things. But if it wasn't for us only having $18, we wouldn't be able to experience all of that. So anyways. And we wouldn't have the stories of God's provision to share back with our partners and say, Hey, the God that you serve over there, he's working here too. And he's doing miracles to make his kingdom advance. And so that is encouraging to the local church that sends us. And it's encouraging to us to know that they're praying for us and encouraging us, uh, loving on us as we're trying to advance the light into the darkness. Yeah. It's awesome. So good guys. Thank you so much for being on here with us. We are definitely going to be doing a part two. We are. We didn't scratch the surface. We may even just make this like a regular thing. Like every month we got to like collaborate or something. Cause it was just so much fun. Um, but, uh, thank you guys for so much for, for, for being on with us and taking your evening there in Spain. James, you got any closing comments? If our, if our listeners want to support you, how do they get ahold of you? How can they support you? Um, well, you can contact us on, uh, social media. We're on Facebook at Mike, the letter N, Jen Peters. Um, we're on Instagram. I'm on Twitter and, uh, our church website here for Sevilla is oasischurchsevilla.org. Um, anybody can reach out to us that way and, and connect with us, talk with us, message, whatever, and we can hook them up with our missions organization. The mission organization is called Global Faith Missions in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And we have our own giving portal there on their website. Awesome. John, close us down. All righty. Thanks everybody for listening today. And, uh, we asked that you share this, uh, this episode and we hope that it was a blessing to you and that you learned something like it and give us a rating on Apple podcast. And until next time to God, not your missionary ports, be the glory. Thank you for listening to the for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, please give a rating, leave a comment or share it on Facebook or Twitter to find more helpful resources for your journey through the independent fundamental Baptist world. Check out RFP network.org where you can find this podcast and others such as the recovering fundamentals podcast, the RFWP podcast, the young Baptist podcast, the church split, the preacher's kids podcast, the 26 letters podcast, and the RFP in Espanol. God bless.

Auto-generated transcript · 10,508 words. May contain errors.