147. Crossover Event with Recovering Fundamentalist Podcast - Featuring JC Groves

I found my freedom in you I found a joy I can't lose And thank God it's true You wrapped your arms around me And heaven broke through From the moment you found me I found my freedom in you Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James Safer and Brad Martin. Welcome back to the For Freedom Podcast. James, I've got a question for you. Do you know what FOMO is? I do. I talk about it often. It is the wonderful fear of missing out. The reason why I ask that question is because that is what people are going to be. They're going to experience FOMO, fear of missing out, if they don't come to Ringgold, Georgia, to the For the Sake of the Gospel Conference, that we are getting ready for. I mean, me and you, we've got our tickets. There are no tickets. It's free admission. But we've got our plans together. We've got our Airbnb rented. We was just talking to JC the other day about the plans for the meetup and the schedule and what we're going to do and who's going to preach when and where. And I can't wait to be there again. It's always a joy when we get together with the RFP fam and we see our listeners there as well. We see our listeners there every year. And it's just going to be a great, great time. I'll tell you, I went to the first one in Statesboro. And we went to a little rinky-dink, little, I don't even know what it was, some kind of camp off in the woods. It had an old west town that was like out of a western movie. And I made some TikToks there. Then they had an old chapel, like wooden chapel, like old school, like in the 1800s type chapel. And, man, we went in there and sang and worshiped. And it was some of the best worship service that I've ever been in. We went to Bourbon. You were at Bourbon. And, man, Bourbon was a great time. We had a great. And hearing you explain Statesboro sounds like a cult startup or something. I know. Meeting back in the woods somewhere. No cell service. No padding on the pews. Just in a little barn. They even served Kool-Aid for dinner. Let's go, baby. We were drinking. You were drinking the Kool-Aid. I'm serious. I was all in. Me and Emily drove. I remember me and Emily drove 10 and a half hours to that meetup. It was a one-night meetup. But we were like, we are not missing it. And we went to it. And we went to Bourbon. And we've been to every For the Sake of the Gospel conference since. And it has just been extraordinary just to get together with people that have the same background as you. That people who've been through what you've been through. And I've used this illustration many times. When you try to explain what growing up in the IFB is like, it's almost like you're talking to people. People look at you like a calf looks at a new gate. They have no clue what you're talking about. It's like you're talking German to them. But when you get around people who've been there, who've experienced it, who was raised in legalism and got out, and somebody can sympathize and empathize with what you went through, it's a sense of camaraderie. It's a sense of family. And if you have never been, get off work. Ask off work now. And go. Make the trip. Make the journey. I guarantee you it'll be worth it. Well, and Brett, you know, they don't really even have to ask off work if they don't work on Saturday. You can leave when you get off work on Friday. Make it down. That way, we're just doing a meetup on Friday night. And then Saturday morning, Nathan's going to be preaching. Saturday afternoon, after lunch, Matt's going to be preaching. And then the rest of Saturday is off just to hang out and fellowship. And then Sunday will be at J.C.'s church. So, I mean, realistically, you could make it down and not have to miss any work. My wife's taking off Friday, and we're going to drive down and be down there with you guys and then leave Saturday after Matt's session. We'll be heading home after that. We won't be staying Saturday night. So, realistically, you could come down and not even miss any work. Exactly. Unless you're coming from, like, Alaska or Hawaii or something or the other side of the world. Which, last year, we had a couple fly in from Alaska. We did. It's always, you know, as we're thinking about it and talking and getting ready for this, one of the questions is always, well, how many are we expecting? We have no idea because there's no registration. So, it could be 10 people, well, at least 10 with J.C.'s family there. You know, he's got, like, 45 kids. So, we're good there. It always pads the number for the Baptist Convention when we were able to say we had 75 people there, but it was one family. And so, that's always exciting, and we're going to have a good time. Hopefully, you can join us. Man, it's going to be a phenomenal time. Bourbon was my favorite meetup of all time. I know I didn't get to go to Statesboro. The conferences have been great. It's been great just to hang out and fellowship and be around people. And so, we're pumped and we're excited about that coming up. Yep, yep. So, what do we got today, James? Today, we are interviewing the RFP guys. And really, when we say guys, it's just one. It's the main one. The one that matters. Yeah, the bald, beautiful, brawny guy. The one that returned our call is the one that matters. Absolutely, yeah. So, Nathan's in Nepal, and Matt, he's out doing something that he has no idea. He's in the woods bowhutting. That's where Matt Dudley is. He's bowhutting. He's grounded himself. He's probably barefoot running around summoning demons somewhere. That's probably what he's doing. But JC is jumping on with us. And let's get this party started by bringing on JC. Let's do it. What kind of shallow person do you want to become? Recovering from fundamentalism or something. They're everywhere. And I think to myself, well, you were just stupid to begin with. And if there's such a word, you're stupider now. Don't get flubbed up like us. And all you flubbed up people, you come and we'll all flub up together. We are excited about having our guest on today. He's no stranger to our show and excited about having JC Groves here with us. This is the first time that me and Brett have got to interview JC. And we were trying to get a couple of others with the RFP, but they all are flakes and they didn't come on. And so we have the main man, the legend, the myth, the legend all together right here. And excited about that. The only one that matters. Brett, we are excited about the meetup and being able to meet in person here soon. But JC, welcome to the show and welcome to the For Freedom podcast again. Thank you. I'm excited to be back on. And I don't promise you that it will sound nice and quiet like it does right now. There looks like there's a construction crew continuing to come in. So if that door gets open, I'll just yell, go Knowles, Adam, and we'll see what happens. That's right. They will probably lose no matter what if you do that. So we're good. JC, coming up is the devil's holiday. I want to know what you're going to dress up for Halloween as. Hmm. You know, I don't know. I try to tell people this all the time. We don't celebrate Halloween. Like, not because we're like, oh, Halloween bad. Jesus good. But we have turned Halloween, as if y'all have listened to the podcast, we turned Halloween into Christmas. That's our first night of Christmas. With six kids dressing everybody up and trying to get them out, you know, into trick-or-treating and all that. It's, you know, kind of like a fart in a fan factory. It's just a mess. I mean, it's gone. And so the thought process, hey, let's create something that we can get everybody around. And so we set up our Christmas tree. This whole next two weeks, we'll set up our tree and get the eggnog going and the hot cocoa and the sugar cookies. And then we'll have Christmas. I dress up like Santa. The kids are like elves. And we hand out little. Now, have you already started listening to Christmas music or is that coming? October 1st. Christmas music starts October 1st. Tree goes up October 31st. Everyone's like, what about Thanksgiving? I'm like, we're thankful for Christmas. Like, I just love everything about it. Yeah. That's way too much Christmas music for me. No way I could do that. And there's new ones that come out. Little Big Town. Dan and Shay. Toby Keith just came out with a new Christmas album. You can't beat Toby Keith. Did he? Wow. Yeah. I get my Christmas music in around Thanksgiving. And I mean, by Christmas day, I am Christmas music out. I'm like Grinch by that time. No, definitely by Christmas day, I'm done. And then the day after, I'm done. But October 1st, get that first little chill in the air. I'm like, I need some Mariah in my life. Right. Right. Well, man, hey, we're excited to have you on today. We know your time is valuable. And we're wanting to talk today about building churches in new spaces and the freedom that's going to look like. We're going to be at the meetup here in just a couple of weeks, two weeks from today. We'll be down there. Which I can't wait for. Yeah. I'm excited. Brett's got his sabbatical plan for down there to rub the head of JC and make a wish and see what happens. Yeah. The oil from. Now, does the IFB, do they sell holy anointed oil where you can anoint people with oil? Brett, have you seen that anywhere? I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't be packed. Maybe we can get some fresh, warm bread to put the hole on as well. Hey! Straight from the heaven. Hang on. Perfect! There you go. I got it lined up, baby. My hind leg. Amen. I love it. Y'all know what I bought when we were in, was it Capernaum? One of the stops we did, it might have been the Dead Sea Scrolls, that I bought a bottle about yay big of oil. And it was called Jerusalem Holy Anointing Oil. And I use it. But I lost my other one. So when I got back, so now anytime somebody has to pray for it, I'll use that. I'm like, hmm, this is straight from an olive tree in Jerusalem. Yeah. I love it. Now, do you have it there with your shawl behind you or no? No. It's somewhere. But you do want to see what I do have. So check out that yarmulke on that guy. Yes. I love it. Yarmulke don't nail this. I don't know. So this thing, 24 years ago, I was on my senior trip to New Orleans. I walked into an antique store that was sitting up against the counter. And I said, what is that? He goes, I don't know. It had an $800 tag on it. I said, I'll give you $10. He said, take it. That's been in here for about 20 years. So I took it. It's been hanging in my office for 24 years. And when we lived in Salt Lake City, I pastored out in Salt Lake City for a while. I took it down to Pawn Stars, the show. And I walked in. They looked at it, took pictures of it, had an expert come in. They're like, you don't really know what this is, but keep it. They offered me 500 bucks for it. I said, now I'm just going to keep it. Someday, this is going to pay my kids college tuition, or I'll probably do it to pay off all the debt from the Recurving Fundamentalist podcast. Right, right. All the lawsuits from calling out people's names. So, well, hey, we're excited about having you on. And you've had a fun journey here recently. And you've been able to, through the Lord's help, plant a church there in Catoosa. And started out in that space where really it was a miraculous event where you were able to take over a church that was leaving and had to basically abandon a building, basically. And then outgrew it within, like, I mean, really two or three Sundays. And you're all running multiple services. And then, out of nowhere, you've been looking for a church and sort of put it on pause. But now this new facility has opened up. You've moved into it. But this transition that's happened in planting and building this church and going through this transition, why don't you tell us a little bit about the journey leading up to this move? How that looked, what happened, and then really the motivation behind this new building. Yeah. So, 24 months ago, back up 25 months ago, you know, we moved back from South Georgia here to Catoosa County, which is North Georgia. And sitting in cigar shops, coffee shops, church, you know, just going all around, running into people. And they're asking questions like, hey, you can plant a church. Immediately, the first answer was no. You know, we really didn't think that there was going to be any type of church that was going to get planted. I had planted a church in this town, Rockbridge Community Church. It was a campus of a multi-site church. I was a campus pastor there for 10 years. We moved into a $7 million building that's about eight miles away. Moved in on Sunday. I quit on Monday. God said go. It wasn't my turn to lead there. And so we came back two years later. And we said, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to meet for the very first time down at a barn on Post Oak Road, about four miles away from here. And I said, if anybody wants to come, come on. We had 70 plus people show up that first night. I was like, what are y'all doing here? I mean, I preached on a pulpit that broke. It was one of those acrylic Church of God pulpits. You know what I mean? Like the see-through kind with the mill. And it broke on the move. So I had a little spot on it. So I'm just setting my Bible on there. And I was like, hey, we just want to do something. We want to see God move. I love Katusa County. I have always had a place in my heart for this area. And I couldn't get away from it. I went to Utah, came back. We went to South Georgia, came back. Like, I just can't get away from this county. And so we did. There was about 70 people the first night. I said, y'all want to meet next week? They said, yes. We came back the next week. We had 115 adults. I think there was like 20 kids. It was unreal. And we're meeting in a barn next to a rodeo arena. So the kids ministry, our second week was them chasing a cow and like tying it up. And that poor little cattle, man, they were happy to see us go. Well, I knew quickly that we were going to outgrow this barn. So that night we're driving and I'm just praying. I'm like, okay, God, we need you. If this is going to happen, where are we going? What are we doing? I mean, we literally church planted bipolar opposite of any of the self, how you should do it and, you know, get a budget, a vision, a mission and all this stuff. We just met and we're like, oh, now we got to do it. I mean, we're two years later and we're just now rolling out mission statements and stuff. That's how behind the ball we are. But I drove past this church. It was meeting. I knew the guy that was leading worship there. They're running 815 on a good day. And so I just pulled in and asked him, I said, hey, would you be willing to rent this building out on a Sunday night? I said, we're meeting in a barn. We've outgrown it. We need a space. And he was like, yeah, definitely. So I said, okay. I said, hey, let me ask you another question. I hope this doesn't offend you. I said, but, you know, I can't help but notice y'all are barely, you know, here. I said, would y'all just want to merge in with what we're starting and just start over? I did not know it was a campus of another church that was about an hour away. He said, that's crazy that you said that. We literally just left a meeting. This is about 10 minutes after they just walked out. He said, we just voted to put the church up for sale to shut us down as a campus. He was like, this may be the answer to that question, those prayers. So Thanksgiving happens. This is two years ago. Thanksgiving happens. It's the Black Friday, I get a call from him and the pastor of the church. And they said, meet us at Cracker Barrel. So 930, 30 minutes before they close, we show up at Cracker Barrel. And he said, what's your vision? This is the pastor. I was like, bro, I don't have a vision. I don't know. Like we're three weeks, four weeks in on this thing. We've met twice. And I said, here's my heart. And that's all I can share with you because we don't have a vision. We don't have money. We don't have a name. We don't have none of this stuff. I said, my thought is, Nehemiah, he's serving in Shushan as the King's Cup bearer. But his heart was in Jerusalem where the gates were torn down, the walls were destroyed. And he wanted to see his people prosper. His heart was burdened for them. That's what I told him. I said, man, I've been in South Georgia. I've been in Utah. I can't get away from this area. I just want to see the people of Caduce County prosper. I want them to know Jesus, not just religion. I want them to know Jesus, like to become disciples of the way. And he set his fork down. He said, nine years ago, we were given this building from a failing church. And the word that we prayed over this building was prosper. He said, we've never prospered in here. We've never had 50, 60, 70 people coming. He said, we just felt like we should be good stewards of the building. He said, let's work out a deal. So five weeks in, as a brand new church, we came up with the name. We started looking at who's going to lead worship, who's going to be kids, all this. In five weeks, we took on a $4,500 a month rent, electric, all this. A lot of people, mostly everybody said, don't do it. You're not going to be able to do it. But there was something in me that said, we got to take this step. And to this day, we have never missed a rent payment. We've never asked for an extension like the money has always shown up. God has provided. And that's been awesome. We were meeting there. And quickly, quickly, folks just started coming. It started growing. We went to two services about three months in. And the building is 120-year-old movie theater. Literally, when you stand at the top, Brett, you've been there. You've seen it. When you stand at the top, it literally is a 20-degree incline. I mean, we had four wheelchairs in there. Easter Sunday, the first year we were there, a lady's brakes gave way. And she started rolling down the hill. I was like, that's new meaning to holy roller right there. And so we're in there. We're meeting. It's fun. We're growing. Well, about a year ago, we got to a place where it was just, we could not function. Physically could not function. We had three rooms for our kids. We're running anywhere from 70 to 90 kids, 100 plus on a good day, and three little bitty rooms. And I was like, okay, we got a problem here. We need to figure out what to do. So we started looking. Our leadership team that we've established started looking. We started praying. When I tell y'all, we looked at every building, every makeshift room, every piece of property. I feel like every place, I called probably eight churches in Catouche County and said, hey, y'all struggling? You need us to come in and take over your building? I probably offended a bunch of people, but I'm like, yeah, I have not because you asked not. So long story short, we, about three months ago, this is fresh. We're October 22nd today. So literally beginning of August, we made the idea that we were just going to stay where we were and we're going to add a third, possibly a fourth service on. We were just going to make it work. Um, we went one Sunday, had people leaving in our two services because there was physically no room to park or sit. And you guys know your pastors that like when, when people leave just because there's nowhere to sit, you're like, what is happening? You know what I mean? It's a great problem to have, but it's also, it just kicks you in the gut. You're like, ah, what if they needed to hear the message today or something? You know what I mean? All those things. So we, um, I left that Sunday and I got a text message and there was a guy that owns the building we're currently in. And he said, Hey, I had a lady that was going to buy this building. She's backed out. Are you interested in reading this? I was like, well, did Tim Tebow have a quiet time? Yes, I am interested in reading that. It's the only time I'll mention a Florida Gator, by the way. Um, and I don't even like him. He's a Christian. Um, but I, I said, yes, let's, let's talk. So we came in, um, you know, it was a little, it was a little. Scary step of faith. Um, you know, we were paying $4,500 a month. Plus we, we were running about seven, $8,000 a month with all the bills and everything. This is $6,000 a month. So it's up the ante there. Um, you know, still not getting paid as a church planner. There's all these like dynamics that are in that, but we just felt we needed to take the step. And so September 1st, uh, we said, okay, we had to pay two rents in the month of September. We had to finish out our $4,500 a month rent at the old building, pay a $6,000 a month rent here with gas. And I'm telling you, it was nuts, but we, we made it. Uh, we, we put the vision out to our folks. We had a thing called an expansion offering. Just said, Hey, we feel that this is a new platform, same message, same ministry, same opportunities to connect with the community, larger platform to do it on, if you will. And, uh, we did an expansion offering raised about $48,000 in one Sunday, uh, just folks. But here's what I love about that. One person, one person gave a $10,000 check. Everything else was all of our church folks giving 500, a hundred, you know, that, that really helped my heart. Like that was everybody giving to the expansion offering, not just like three big checks. And we high five that we look like we were doing it. Um, and so we, uh, we, we got the keys here September 1st and it was nonstop for 36 days. Uh, we totally remodeled this place. I mean, built paint, uh, put lights in, uh, the floors were hideous and we put this garage floor epoxy down. Uh, I'm so excited for y'all to see it. I mean, it's, it's really, it's really awesome just to see where it was and what, where we're at now. Um, we went from 150 seat auditorium to a 350 seat auditorium. Uh, first Sunday we had right at 400 and something. I can't remember the amount we had to bring out about 80 chairs. That was the first Sunday. Listen, we've all eaten at Bojangles. If they build a new Bojangles down the street, we'll sit in line for an hour just to get to the new Bojangles. Right. So the first Sunday don't ever, don't ever high five yourself or bite yourself on the back for the first Sunday of the last two we've averaged out right at around three 15, three 50. It's been awesome. Um, you know, folks are getting saved. Folks are getting baptized. We've seen 50 folks baptized in the last 24 months as a church. Um, I told him, I said, man, if we were Southern Baptist and sent that in, we'd have a plaque on the wall and a write up in the outreach magazine. But, uh, but it's, it's, it's fun. It's just, uh, this, this place was not on the radar. Um, there was another church that was meeting in here and they actually kicked them out. They were building a new building because the lady was going to buy it. And then she ended up getting cancer and backed out. And so in the course of 50 days, it went on the market. We got it. And we've had three services in here now. And it's, it's been fun. It's, it's exciting, challenging, but that's a, that's the story in a nutshell of the last two years. You know, I was following your, uh, first, uh, you know, your first meeting, your first Sunday, reading comments on your posts and your videos. And man, I was noticing people dogging you out about the park and there's no park park and I would have been able to stay. And I was like, man, it's, you know, it's, it's crazy that it's such a victory, but then, you know, people complain about something like parking. And so maybe you can speak on that, but that brings us into our next point that we want you to talk about is kind of man, how do you manage the growth now that you're in this new building? You know, like have you managed the growth in your attendance? What are the biggest changes in your church since the move? Well, the parking is, that is definitely one of the biggest headaches that we've had. We are going from a place that we had zero parking. We, we literally were parallel parking on a, on a County, we're on a city road. Um, folks were walking a mile plus in to church at our old building. We get here and I was really excited. We got 118 spots and every one of them hacked to the gills. We're parked all the way down the road. There's a diesel plus mechanic shop right across the street. So we started parking folks over there. Um, you know, good problem to have, but it's also attention to manage because you want to make sure that, you know, I mean, we live in this consumeristic mentality of me church, you know, like, Oh, we got to have the handicap parking. The first time guests, turn your hazard lights on. We, the mindset of church treating a first time guest, um, special is I get it. But we also say, what about the second timer? Cause they're choosing to come back. What about the third, the fourth, the fifth? So we don't put an emphasis on first time guests. We never say the word first time guests. We don't have you turn your hazard lights on. We don't have a special parking spot for you. We're just like, come on in. We don't, we're a church plan. So we give you a high five. We don't even have a first time guest gift. Um, so that's attention to manage there. But you know, one of the things that I've absolutely loved about this tension to manage excuse me. Um, one of the things that I've loved is core volunteers, people who are all in people that are, they, they see the vision, they get the vision. Um, we've put the ask out, not telling, not forcing, just asking, Hey, we want to create space for those who want to come, who aren't plugged in yet, who might not stay. If there's not a parking spot in the church, I know it's a little inconvenient, but here's the why behind the why. If we would just park two blocks down a half a mile down at this business, that's letting us park there that would free up spaces here. I pulled in Sunday, the band, the worship team, greeters, volunteers. There was probably 60 cars parked a half a mile down the road at a business. And I see this line of people walking in 7. AM it's sun's coming up, it's cold. And they're walking down the road, carrying all their stuff with them. Like, I was like, okay, we need to get a golf cart to thank those people for their added step of taking, you know, that's being the church. It's, it's, it's like, okay, we'll park up. It's inconvenient, but I'm going to free up a spot that somebody might be able to turn because we did have some folks leave. You know, I mean, we probably had four or five people that commented on that. Hey, you know, I would have stayed if there was a parking spot, you know, but those folks see that. So they came. So that's awesome. And parking is just an issue. It's, it's, it is what it is. We've been working with the city. There's a 14 acres to our right about trying to get that and turn it into a gravel spot. You know, we'll, we'll work with that inside the lobby. One of the tensions to manage here. So we, we built a wall. Y'all will see it when you come. It's a movable wall on wheels. We're going to write welcome home on it. On the other side of it, we put, so I'm going through our first series is just our mission statement. We are the church. And I wrote, we are the church. And we put a bunch of pictures all over it from our first service to now. And we put that wall specifically strategically right inside the front door because it is a representation of the size of our old lobby, which is about 600 feet. So you walk in and I mean, you're practically there. And then you step around into a 6,000 square foot room that we have for community. We're going from 600 feet space for community to 6,000 square feet. And it's just, it really just kind of opened your eyes to see the difference between where we were and where we're at. And, you know, we're still, we're only three weeks in. There's still this healthy tension of where do I sit? All of our chairs were donated. So we've got three different sections of donated chairs. We've got a red section, we've got a green section, a doo-doo brown section, a pastel section. You know what I mean? It's, it's funny just to see there's still, you can still tell it's very much a church plant, but we're trying to make it work, you know? And I think just figuring out the newness of where people are going to sit. We went from two services to one. So that means there's 50, 60 people that are volunteering in kids, in parking, in security that don't get to come into the service that are serving in kids. And so there's that, like, you know, with one service, they'll work one Sunday a month and trying to get enough volunteers where they're not missing church every week, you know, because that's what tends to happen when you, when you do kids ministry. And so we're just, we're, we're managing all of that in a new realm. Um, and it's, it's fun. It's exciting. We're trying to figure out sound. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's a, it's a journey that we're on to help people not get frustrated with the way that it's always been. Even as a 24 month old church, we still started creating some traditions and some DNA who we are kind of thing. And so getting them to not see, well, this is how it's always been. You know, I mean, from our background, we know that's, that puts you in a rut. So it's just a healthy tension that we're managing right now. And I'm sure next month from now, if we sat back down, all of that would have changed because something new is going to come with how we're doing it here. And so that's kind of where we're at right now. Does your children's church have kind of the same amount of space or more space? So we went, we went from three rooms to eight rooms plus a massive, uh, theater. So we have, we have ample amount of kids space now, which is awesome. We've got two rooms for babies. We Sunday, we had 27 birth to two year olds. Um, and that was in one room that was like very, very tiny. Now we've got two 10 by 10 rooms for them to be in. And, you know, it's, it's clean. There's carpet. It's not 120 year old asbestos room that they're rolling around in now. So we've got, we've got much room for, for our kids. So, and, you know, in our building, it is one big room. So there is still that noise issue that we're trying to work with. You know, we've, we've, we've figured this out over three weeks. I'm like, okay, I hear kids screaming. So we put some soundproofing up on the walls and the kids area. You know, it's just those little things that, you know, after you buy a car, it's really nice. You take it to the car wash about 15 times and about a month in, you're like, Oh, I didn't see that scratch. You know what I mean? So that's kind of where we're at now. The newness is wearing off and we're starting to see the things that we need to work on. You said something that was interesting because we were at an association meeting just a couple of days ago, planning our, uh, semi-annual meeting. And somehow they nominated me to be like vice moderator or something. I don't know how I wasn't at a meeting. And then they were like, Hey, you're going to be this guy. So, uh, yeah, that's how it works. And so Bibles and babies, I guess. And so we were talking and one of the guys, he's the oldest pastor in the community. He's in his seventies. He retired and came back out of retirement. It's helping a church that needed a pastor. We call him the Pope of the County. And, uh, so he hates when we call him that, but there was something that had, we had done last year. We just, all the new pastors in the association came up and we introduced them. And then one of the guys just prayed over them, not laid hands on, but just, you know, Hey, let's say a blessing, a prayer of these guys. And so it had gotten brought up to do it again. And he said, let me pray about that. Because in the Baptist world, if you do anything twice, it becomes a ritual and you got to keep doing it from then on. You can't break it. He said, let me make sure this is something we want to continue to do. Uh, and so it's always, yeah, it was, there's some, in some things that the church I'm at now where I'm like, eh, I really don't like doing that. Well, I know we've done it for 170 years, but we're going to change it a little bit. And it's like, Whoa, we can't change that. We we've always done that. Um, that's what I do love about church planning is we're, we have no traditions right now. Like, you know, I say the Bible is our only tradition, but in saying that in 24 months, we have created some, some, I don't know if it's DNA, if it's culture, if you know, what is it? Culture eats vision for, for breakfast kind of thing, or is it the other way around? Yeah. Culture eats vision for breakfast. So we have just some culture that's created. Now we're starting over with new culture and it's like, Oh, we're, we can't do it that way. I'm like, we've only done that for like eight months. Y'all. I mean, come on. It's not like it's that old. Yeah. So, um, I about said, Brett, JC, what is some challenge or maybe a challenge? Maybe the biggest change that you've had to do since you've made this move and transition? What's the biggest one that you would say that's man, this one thing has been the biggest obstacle to overcome or the biggest challenge that we've had to do. Yeah, I think, I think follow-up is something that we, we really never really did well in the old place. Um, and I don't know if it's that they're more visible now and they're hanging out. And so I, I've really poured into more of, uh, like the follow-up culture, you know, we're, we're pastoral care. It seems like there's just, uh, we've had an amazing amount of first-time guests, new building, you know, they're drawn to that. So the follow-up has been something that we've really tapped into. Uh, I use a thing called vid yard. Not sure if y'all have ever heard of that, but, um, I I've been wanting to try it. I did it when I was campus pastor, but what it is, is, I mean, you, you literally record a video and can send it to them on text or email. And it's been a, it's been a good tool. I mean, it puts a face with the name, so they're able to see that and, um, and have a conversation there. Um, so that's been one, I think just teaching for me, I don't have that practice sermon at nine o'clock. Now I only got to do it one time and I'm finding myself not having the clock. And so I went 52 minutes on Sunday, which is a long time for me. And I was like, Oh my goodness. You know, I'm, my folks are used to about 20, 30 minute little sermons. And then I'm going 52. I'm like, calm down, breathe. So, you know, just, just keeping my finger on the pulse of that. Um, you know, you get used to where people are sitting, even in your places, you know, you, you, you have those faces. It, I still don't feel comfortable on that stage yet. Like it's still it, the room is a lot wider. When I turn and look to my left, there's people behind me and the same, as opposed to everybody being right in front of me. So there's, there's little things like that. I don't know if necessarily I can say there's one thing that is, um, we've had to change or, or manage differently. Um, that would be a challenge. I think, you know, just, just, uh, obviously, you know, casting vision a lot more for income for finances, you know, that's a lot more bills to pay. I don't know. I don't know if I can necessarily pinpoint one area that we're having to really focus on now something that's coming in the future. Um, we are putting a bigger emphasis on groups on making sure we get folks connected because the goal is the larger we grow, the smaller we want to become. And so, you know, getting people connected because, um, I see the tendency to just blend in, especially now in a much larger room, slip in, slip out. I mean, there's people here that I sent texts to last week. I'm like, Hey man, hadn't seen you. You're like, I sat right in front of you. I was like, I'm sorry. Everybody's face is kind of blended in, but also letting life happen in community. And so getting people really plugged into community. There's also some, let me, I do have a challenge that just kind of came to mind. Um, there's this natural sense, I think in all of us as humans, especially in church world of when you move to something that's a little bit nicer, something bigger, there's this feeling of I've arrived, we've achieved something we've, we've crossed the finish line. Um, I think really managing that and keeping people, um, aware on the mission and on the goal, we're doing the same thing that we were doing eight miles down the road, just in a larger platform. Now we've got to keep pressing the ball forward. We can't let up on the accelerator. This is not like we've crossed the finish line and we're like, okay, we're in a nice building now. Ooh, let's take a breath. No, now ministry is just that much more larger scale. Let's continue to do what we've always done and press the ball forward. I think so. One of the things that we have here is a volunteer staff, nobody's paid. Um, and so it's, it's, it's like volunteers on steroids. I mean, but they get the vision, they run with the vision. So pouring that into them a little bit, there's that sense of like, we've arrived and, you know, just, just making sure we keep the finger on the pulse of that. Like, Hey, we haven't arrived where there's a tension. Now to manage, we're, we're doing the same thing we've always done. We just got to make sure we, uh, pump a little bit more gas into it. If that makes sense. Yeah. It's like, uh, the football analogy for the football team. That's, uh, so, you know, up by two or three touchdowns. It's easy to sort of coast a little bit. And the coach, the coach comes out and says, Hey guys, this is the time to put the pedal down and keep going forward. And it's just not natural for us to do that, uh, in our culture. And so, and you'll see a team that'll blow up a 10, 15, 20 point lead because they just can't keep the gas pedal down. I don't know if I'm, if I'm talking to Brett or JC right now, but, but, you know, I go in 13 and O and then coming back out and going one in six. I mean, yeah, it's, it's tough. And so that, that definitely can, that coaching realm can, can correlate over into pastoring in a different area. So, you know, go ahead. No, go ahead, Brett. I was going to say, uh, it's funny. You mentioned the football analogy in my mind. I just saw a video where Nick Saban was saying that when he's on a winning streak in the middle of the season and they haven't lost any games that season, he'll go to his guys and say, all right, guys, when you wake up in the morning, who owes you something? Nobody, you know, and there were some more statements that he made, but, you know, just not to get full of yourself, you know, stay humble. Uh, JC, here's, here's kind of like the final question. I know this is new. You've only been in your building like three weeks, but let's just say a pastor comes in your office and the pastor says, listen, brother, uh, we're about to go through a transition similar, uh, to what you did, uh, when you transitioned into your new church. Can you give me any advice? Is there something that maybe you would have, have done different or something as I'm going into this, I need to look out for, uh, what advice would you give a brand new pastor that's going into the same type of transit transition that you've been through? Step one, pray, pray, pray, pray. Um, don't ever make a decision off of feeling. Don't ever make a decision off of what, what might seem right. There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. Um, I I'm a nerd when it comes to certain things. I will review stuff before I buy it. I bought some cologne last week and I think I've watched about seven review videos off that cologne. My wife's like, you're a nerd. I'm, but I want to know the why behind the why I want to make sure when we're taking this step, like here's every possible thing that could go wrong. Here's every pro here's every con there's always going to be stuff you're going to miss. But I think the first thing is to ask the question. Why, why are we making this move? Is it because a bigger, nicer, newer building is sexy and this one smells bad. And instead of fixing some stuff, I just want to go and do that there. Do we think, is it, is it pride? Is it ego? Is it, you know, I think you, that's the first step is you've got to answer the why question. Why does the move need to happen? Um, a lot of times people will, you know, let's be honest and I'm the, I'm the same way. I'm not calling anybody out. We are enamored with new. There's something about new, new car smell, new shoes, new golf clubs, new, you name it, new beard oil, new toothbrush, like new deodorant. I mean, there's something about deodorant, whatever. Um, there's just something with new. So there's this, this bent to not just stay where we are, but to look ahead to new. And I think you got to really struggle with that. We, we struggled, uh, wondering why are we searching for something new? We had to stop and pause. And we actually came back with the answer. There's nothing out there. Let's stop and let's focus on where we are and how we can make this work. If you have explored every option and you're still coming back to the same result that it has to change, then you start taking the steps to go. Um, but that's only done through prayer. And a lot of counsel and us, obviously if you can't financially do it, don't do it. It's not good to put yourself in a worst case scenario. That's ultimately going to hurt it. I mean, I'll just be honest. We were, we were at the point where two years in, I was about to start taking a salary on. Um, you know, we, we, we have very little income right now, a thousand dollars stipend a month. Um, you know, and then my family cleans the church. We make $400. So we're bringing in, and then we have some outside people that gave us some support for the last year. We're bringing in about 2000 total a month. Um, here as pastors of hope church. Well, that leadership got together and we, uh, they said, we want to start giving you a salary. Funds are at the place where we can give you a salary. Well, then literally the next week, this building came available, $1,500 more rent, looking at bills and all that stuff. And I said, here's this, here's what you have to understand. We, my wife and I were on the same team. We, we came to the agreement. We came here knowing that we were going to take a step to help the church grow. We on purpose came here knowing that we may not have a salary for a while. We'll work odd and end jobs to make it work. But we had to agree, my wife and I, you know, like I, I saw the new building, but she saw the paycheck. So we had to come to an agreement. Hey, we may not be able to take a paycheck for a while, but if, is it us get paid or the detriment of the church moving forward? Uh, we took the step and said, Hey, well, we don't want to be paid right now. We, we would love to be, but we understand if we take that, the church is going to have to stay where we are. And I would rather see the church move into a new larger facility that could draw in people and bro, I'm honest. The last three weeks, our giving has been a triple where we had been. And you know, it's steps of faith are scary, but you have to take them at times. I think counsel is the biggest thing. First thing, prayer. Second thing, make sure your spouse is on board because there's going to be some big decisions that come with that. That's a biggie. Third is, uh, your leadership. One of the things that we did, um, especially for young guys, especially for newer churches, even older churches, a lot of times we make decisions in silos. Um, we have the idea, we have the thought, we make it happen. We put a leadership team together. Uh, we call them the hope leadership team, the HLT. And so it is a sounding board. It is guys giving their, you know, it's not a group of yes, man. Um, some would have deacon boards, someone have elder boards, but those are helping us make decisions. We're young church. We're still working on our structure and all that. So I just didn't want to make a decision in a silo. These are big money decisions that we're making here and to take this step. So I think you, you, you got to look at it. You can't just do knee jerk reactions. You got to do your due diligence. Is it even feasible? Because there may be a building that you're wanting to move into. That's nice, but it may not work because you just can't afford it. You know, and you got to live within your means as stupid Dave Ramsey would say, um, you know, so you gotta, you gotta make sure that there are the, and then, and then on that, what I, what I always say is God's will is practical. It's not mystical. It will just work out if it's supposed to happen. There's a lot of times I'm praying, God, are we supposed to go there? Are we supposed to do this? Like if we are, will you let $2,000 show up tomorrow in the mail? You know, that may not happen. Or can I just hear you audibly speak? I hope he sounds like Morgan Freeman. If I ever hear him audibly speak, but it's, it's practical. Literally in 57 days, the practicality of every little detail fell into place and we didn't have to make that happen. So I think knowing that God's will is practical, not mystical, not making something happen. Wisdom in a multitude of counselors, your spouse is on board. Prayer, prayer, prayer, prayer is probably the biggest step that you could, you could take. If, if you, if you feel when you're praying about it and asking about it, that it's a no, don't move forward. You're making, you're making a decision out of flesh and not spiritual. If that makes sense. Yeah. I think that one of the things you said that was great, uh, that I took away, as you were saying, that was talk to your spouse, you know, as a pastor, uh, we were, we had an opportunity. Church was shutting down. They had five or three members that a couple of the churches were wanting to, uh, were adopting this church, bringing it on to replant it. And, uh, they had asked me to come be their pastor. And so I'd met with the, the pastors of that, the team that was going to help fund it and everything. And, uh, I was excited. I was ready to go. Like we were, we were all on board and I was talking to John and John said, well, how's Allie was Allie thinking about this? And I sort of hung my head and I said, you know, I haven't really asked her that question. So I went home that night and I said, Hey, Allie, I said, what do you think about this church? I haven't asked you. I said, what, what, what's your thoughts? She said, James, I know you're excited. She said, but one of those pastors, he just reminds me a lot of one of our former pastors. And I just don't think you're going to be able to, you're going to mesh well, and you're going to be able to pass the way you want to pastor. I thought, man, I didn't get that. I didn't see that. So, uh, again, it's not mystical. Like you said, all this is wrapping around. So I went and next meeting sat down with them, told them, Hey, we're not going to go with it. We're going to move on. I mean, it was the hardest meeting I've ever had telling them. And they were ready to pull the trigger and, and move forward that day. I'm driving down the road and I get the phone call from this church where I'm at now. Yeah. Yeah. And I told John, I've told Brett this. I said, I fully believe if I say yes to that other church, this church didn't call. Yeah. And it was God just saying, Hey, test your faith, see where you're at. And, uh, that, that is, that is huge. And having that council and having that, those people around you that you're talking to. My, my papaw used to always tell me he pastored 40 plus years. He said, John Calvin, you got to live your life every moment to where, when the Holy spirit speaks, you not only hear his voice, but you know who it is speaking. And, and, you know, I mean, if you back up five years ago to, well, 2019, uh, I'm standing on a 40,000 square foot slab, two steel beams of rock bridge community church. And it was just very clearly God said, you're done. You are not supposed to be the campus pastor that leads this church into a new building. And then it was after that. Okay. Now what, you know, that's right before COVID hits. I get a position at, at Bill Hybel's old church, Willow Creek up in Chicago. They want to become be the student impact director and all the council. This is where it's important. All the council was no, don't go. You're going to make a lot of money, but that's going to be like $20,000 in Georgia. You got six kids living in Chicago. You look like a walking Trump supporter. Like it probably wouldn't be a good idea to go to Chicago. Well, lo and behold, four months later, COVID hits that place shut down. I mean, Chicago really shut down. God led us to South Georgia. God led us back here. So when I say you got to live every moment to where, when the Holy spirit speaks, you are the leader. If I'm talking to that pastor, Brett, you're the leader of that congregation. You're the one that God is, is you're in tune to the spirit, to listen, to lead and to guide. And a lot of times what happens is we tend to take steps out of pride because it would, it would appear that we're better off than we are than actually staying in just going through the motions of making it happen. Um, where sometimes God is just wanting you to, to rely on him and stay where you are. Um, you know, we, I think it's, it's, it's harder at times to obey and stay than it is to grow and go because it seems prettier. If that makes sense, you know what I mean? And, um, you just gotta, you gotta live every moment to where, when he speaks, you not only hear his voice, but you know who it is speaking. So, and I'm reading one of my favorite verses is a Colossians 3 15, where it talks about letting the peace of God rule in your hearts, you know, where the peace of God, and it's not only just like a compass telling you what direction to go. It's an umpire that rules and an umpire has authority in your life. And that's people that rule in your life have the authority. And sometimes we can use the peace of a God as an excuse is, you know, I don't have peace about that. But really the Bible instructs us and how we know how the Holy Spirit speaks to us. I'm mentioning this verse because it's on my heart that, um, that knows through the peace of God and it's, you gotta sit back. You gotta be willing to listen, not to your flesh. Uh, you need to listen to the Holy Spirit communicate to you through the peace of God before you act, before you move. Um, and you know, that's, that should be the foundation of, of our decisions, even going into a transition like this, going into a new church situation, you got to make sure that you have the peace of God. It is the, the compass. It's the ruler, uh, that Christians use. Yep. I agree. I love it. One last question. Where is Matt Dudley? Man, I don't know. Where's, where's Nathan? I mean, Nathan, Nathan's in East Tambou, but no, where was he at last night? Asia, uh, Nepal. He, he texted me the other day from London. Uh, he's been in Nepal for the last three or five. Traveling evangelist. I mean, Billy Graham Jr. This guy could take a flight. This is where Nathan and I are different. I'd get on a plane and fly to Nepal. Nathan gets on a plane and does a world tour and then goes to Nepal and does a world tour and comes home. I'm like, just go to Nepal and come back. He goes to Dubai to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to the, to the, to the, to the, where was he at? France. I think I got a picture of that. He was in Asia on like, I I'm pretty sure he sent me a picture of Mount Everest. I don't know where that was. Like he's all over the world. It's like, where in the world is Nathan? That. Matt Dudley might be out bow hunting somewhere. It's that time. That is exactly where Dudley's at. So I have been trying to call Dudley for a week now. Last night at three 30 in the morning, four o'clock AM. I was up. I text Nathan. Cause I knew he's on the other side of the world and it's probably lunchtime. And he texts me and Dudley goes, Hey guys, you're alive. Okay. I've been trying to get ahold of you for a week. He's like, sorry, bro. I've been out here hunting. They don't have any cell signal. I was like, man, we released. We, we, yeah. So I don't know where Dudley's at. He was supposed to be on here with us today, but he was, he was bless his heart. There's only one of us really committed to the mission. Amen. That's exactly right. All right. I love it. Listen guys, I am, I have to, we have to mention this one more time before we go. I couldn't, I cannot be more excited for the conference this year. Yeah. We got our, we got our Airbnb. Where y'all staying? We are staying in what Roland Fork or something. It's right outside of Fort Oglethork. Let me pull it up right here. Rock Springs. Um, maybe let me. Brett booked the room. I'm just showing up and sleeping. That's all I'm doing. My whole family's coming down, JC. That's good. Are y'all leaving Saturday night? Rossville. I'm leaving. Rossville. Yeah. You're, you're right here by us. Yeah. I'm leaving. I'm leaving Saturday night, Saturday after the, after the session. You're going to miss the best session on Sunday morning. Yeah. Someone's got, someone's got to preach. So big man's got to show them preach. Here's what I did. I said, Nathan, Matt, y'all just take Saturday. I'm just going to preach like normal on Sunday and call it the third session. So see Friday, it all changed. Cause I PA announced high school football here locally and we had a rain delay. So they moved our game to Friday night. So Friday night session is just going to be a meetup where we're just going to hang out and, you know, sit around here at the church and eat and do whatever. And so I'll be here Friday night. It'll be late. I'll be in around 10 o'clock. But then Saturday, we'll start with the sessions that morning. We got some good worship. I think the people that lead with Nathan are coming down and he's going to be speaking. And then the hips family. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. The hips family are coming down. Hello. Yeah. We can hear you. Oh, sorry. I lost, I lost tears. I don't know what happened. So they're going to come down and Nathan's going to speak. And then our worship team is going to lead worship for the afternoon session and Dudley speaking. And then we'll hang out and I'll eat together. When are y'all leaving? Brett? Let's see. We're leaving. Yeah, we're leaving. I think that, that Friday morning and we'll, we'll, we'll be there that evening, but we're leaving early Friday. And it's not a long trip for us. Yeah. When are you heading back home? Will you be here Sunday? Yeah, we'll be there Sunday where I, we're going to go to the conference and then we'll be there Sunday and then we start a week vacation. So. Oh yeah. You're taking sabbatical. You did that last year, didn't you? Oh yeah. That's when I do it. Did you preach or did you just come in? I just came in. And if I'd have known you were going to be here. I don't, will you be back the next Sunday? I can be. Hmm. I'm calling you. Okay. Yeah. Love it. Well, Hey, hopefully you guys come down. It's been great to have this crossover event. We're still recording guys. So it's great. Hey, come and come and be with us for the sake of the gospel conference. It's going to be at hope church, 2501 Pine Grove road in Ringgold, Georgia. And this is our third annual for the sake of the gospel conference. It's a meetup. It's it. I love meetups. I love when the paint, the fam gets together and we just sit around and talk and it's, it's like, we'd never miss a beat. Like everybody just gets together. If we're in bourbon, if we're in bourbon, Missouri, if we're in, where else were we at? Uh, Oh, Statesboro. We did Statesboro. We did Danville, Virginia. Now we're doing it. We did Nashville. Yeah. I didn't get, I didn't get to go to Statesboro. Bourbon. Bourbon so far has been my favorite of all time. Bourbon was great. Statesboro meetup. The very first one was one of the most special nights I've ever had in my life. There was something that chapel when we got in there and started, my goodness, it was, it was a little bit of heaven, little country church. Hey, it reminded me of that chapel church that house started. What was it called? Uh, but yeah, it was, it was awesome, man. It was great. I love it. Look, we're going to do it November 3rd. No second, third and fourth. That's when it is right. November 2nd, third and fourth here in Ringgold, Georgia, free of charge, no registration. Just come on down and be with us. Love it. Can't wait. It's going to be great. And I can't wait to come down there next week. We'll be giving our meetup or our crossover event with growing race podcast. And I hope you'll tune in next week with that, the girls podcast. And, uh, we appreciate JC coming on and, uh, uh, hate that the other guys couldn't be here, but until next time, Brett to God. Not the pastor. Be the glory. Peace. Found my new name. Found that good grace. Found that healing. And the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning. Has no ending. Found that second chance. Found my best friend. Found my forgiveness. Found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. Found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for the for freedom podcast. . Thank you.

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