192. The Jake Carlisle Story

Welcome back, dear listener, to the For Freedom podcast. What a blessing it is to be back with you today. Man, we have a great interview lined up for you today. A great interview with a good friend of mine. I've been to Israel with him. I've been in Bible college with him. Man, we have been through lots of life together. And I'm excited about that story coming up in just a little bit. Until then, I want to welcome you to the show. Give you a couple of housekeeping things coming up. We have our Israel trip right around the corner. We are so excited about our Israel trip. And January 30th through February 7th. We only have maybe five spots left. If you're interested, please, please go to the Iowa website that is in our, I think it's in our show notes. It's also on our website. Social media, you can find it. Multiple different locations. And go and check that out so that you can join us. It is going to be a wonderful time. You're not going to find a more affordable trip, much less a trip that is going to be more God honoring. Man, we're going to go to sites that Jesus was at. He walked on. We are going to do some teaching while we're there. You're going to fully get immersed into a biblical narrative of scripture while we're there. What a great time it's going to be. We hope you come and join me and Brett as we partake in this wonderful journey and this trip together. You're going to love it. I do want to give a quick plug. If you haven't went and purchased my newest book, From Brokenness to Freedom, it is out on Amazon. And it's affordable on paperback, hardback if you want a copy of that. And we just talked through what it's like to leave a spiritually abusive, legalistic environment, how you can have hope and healing from that, and how you can begin your journey through leaving that environment. We talked through the stages of disillusionment, grief, anger, questioning, leaving, ultimately the fork in the road of bitterness or healing, and then how you can begin to help others. We have received such great feedback from this, and I'm just thankful that it's been a blessing. I never imagined in a million years that I would write a book and that people would buy that book. And so I'm thankful that the Lord has given me this opportunity to go on and write this book with John and his help. And so I hope you enjoy that. Please go and support the ministry in that way. Speaking of John, if you'll be praying for this, John is going to be in my church next week preaching a revival. And excited about him coming out here to North Carolina next Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday speaking on Restore Revival, the fall Restore Revival that we're having here at our church. And just excited about spending some time with him, but also being a blessing to our church community and the growth that it has there. Speaking of church, I hope that you are in a local church somewhere in your area. If not, please reach out to us. I've got friends all across the nation and good Bible-believing, friendly people who love the Lord and want to see your spiritual growth as well. And so please be in a church somewhere on the Lord today. Last but not least, if you haven't partaked in our, if you are a fellow brother or sister that enjoys cigars, if you have not enjoyed looking and perusing through our website, I would encourage you to go be a blessing to our ministry by supporting us. These are the only ads that we give in our podcast are right here at the beginning during our banter. And I want you to enjoy yourself, avail yourself to the cigars there at 4 Freedom Cigar Company. And we have received so many good things from that as far as good feedback and just the support that we get from the ministry, the little bit of revenue that we do get from that, it does go a long way in the quality of what we produce and the ability to do this. Just this last week, I was at a festival and the amount of people that I talked to that were able to be a blessing to just by sharing the book and the cigar with different people was a blessing. Do know that our experience box, it is a limited supply. I think we've said this before, but we only have a limited supply of the coffee and the soap. And so if you're wanting to get one of those, please go and buy that immediately. As we draw closer to Christmas time and we get closer to the holiday season, they will sell out and we've already seen many people buy from those. And we thank you for that. But it's a great little gift basket that you can give to a father or brother for a holiday gift. Right now, like I think I said earlier, it's discounted by about $45 or $50 right now. And so it's at a very affordable rate. You can get the four cigars, a bag of coffee and a bar of soap. And I know that if I were to get this gift, I would be over the moon. And so if you're looking for something for the holidays, now is the time to do that. Again, we only have a limited supply of those said boxes. And so today we've got an interview with Jake Carlisle. Jake Carlisle is a good friend of mine. And we went to college for a couple of years together. And he also went to Israel with us. And I've went up to his house. We went to Branson together. And we've spent some extended period of time together, various different times. And so thankful for him, his friendship, the many times where I've called him or he's called me and just been able to share life together. And so I hope you enjoy this today. Me and Brett sit down with him and talk about his time at West Coast Baptist Bible College. Also his time with several other colleges that he was at. I think he said he went to four total colleges, Champion, Shawnee, West Coast, and the Crown College of the Bible. So you get a first-hand experience of a couple of those colleges. We hope you enjoy today's episode. And buckle up tight for a great day. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. I ain't saved by dress codes, not by what I eat. I'm covered in the righteousness, washed from head to feet. No tally of tradition, no man-made code. Blood bought my freedom, now I ride that road. They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise. But my praise still ascends past the legalist cries. Christ plus nothing, that's the real math. So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path. He sat with sinners, I'm sitting with saints. Sipping grace from the bottle, no room for fakes. I light one for liberty, toast to the king. Every ash a sermon, death has lost its sting. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. Let grace begin. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Now here are your hosts, James Saifert and Brett Martin. All right, we're excited to have on here today, Jacob Carlisle, a good friend of mine. We went to college together, went to Israel together, possibly going back to Israel with us in January. If you haven't signed up, now's the time to sign up. And you get to go with us and have a great time while we're there. Jake, welcome to the podcast. Tell us who you are, where you're from, what you're doing, age, kids, social security number, anything else we need to know. Absolutely, man. I'm a joy to be here. My name is Vic Carlisle, and I'm in Jefferson City, Missouri, currently serving at Concord Baptist Church as the young adults pastor here and been in ministry, you know, off and on since really about the last 20 years. And so whether it was lay ministry or part-time or full-time or promise time, however you want to look at that, but, and done youth pastors, I've been a youth pastor, interim youth pastor, young adults pastor. And so I've been married to my wife for 12 years, and I have a seven-year-old, about to be eight-year-old son, and a nine-year-old, about to be 10-year-old daughter. And so we are, we are as busy as busy can be, and sports and school and all kinds of stuff. And so we just excited to be here, excited to connect with James and Brett and talk over some college stuff. Absolutely. Well, Jake is, he's a professional when it comes to college. He has been to many of the colleges that we've talked about. And as we just recently talked about West Coast, there at Paul Chappell's college, we're going to start there and talk about your time at West Coast. Tell us about how you first heard about West Coast. It was your third college or was it your fourth college you went to? It was my fourth and last college. And last. All right. So you, you graduated from West Coast. Let's do this. The years you were there and why you chose to transfer from champion out to West Coast. We'll start there. Well, I transferred from Shawnee. So, um, it's all right. It's easy to get confused because there's, there's lots of them to pick from there. But, uh, yeah, no, I went, um, let's see, I would have been out there, um, the fall semester of 2010 and I would have finished in December of 2012. Um, I skipped a semester in there for, uh, work and interning somewhere. Um, but it finished in December, but then, um, walked in May of 2013. Uh, how did I hear about it? Um, yeah, I originally heard about it. Um, when I was, uh, in high school, there was, um, uh, my basketball coach, uh, in high school, his grandson was going out there. And I mean, that would have been, that would have been like 2004, 2005. Um, and so being in Missouri had, had not heard a whole lot about West Coast. So I knew that it existed. And then my buddy that I actually ended up going to crown with my freshman year was, um, he was deciding he was either going to go to crown or West Coast. That was his, so I'd kind of heard about it from then, but as you'll hear my story a little bit more later on about the different colleges kind of will, will, um, kind of how I ended up out there. Um, so, um, but yeah, I ended up out there in 2010. So, so you, you've been to several colleges at this point, you get to West Coast. And my question is, what are your first impressions? Like when you walk on campus and you see the teachers and whatnot, how does it compare to the others? And then once you talk about that, walk us through like a day to day in the life of a West Coast student. Yeah. You know, I mean, when I got there, um, number one, it's in the middle of nowhere. Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's on the edge of Lancaster, but like Lancaster and Palmdale, they're in the high desert. Um, so, and, um, the time that I was out there, they were on the edge, almost like a mile out from Lancaster. So like literally in the middle of nowhere. Um, but also like they had kept up their grounds really nice. And so like, you know, it's, as far as some of the other colleges that I went to, um, the facilities were probably the nicest of all the colleges that I had went to. Um, and, uh, they seem to do things, um, in a more first class way than, um, than I had been used to. Um, the other thing about it was, you know, I'm from the Midwest and so like this was out in California. So just some of the, um, cosmetics of things were, were different. Um, the way that they, uh, things were kind of updated if you would, like everybody had a key card to, to get into, um, their dorms and to sign into chapel. And, um, and I know the other colleges that already gotten to that point, but I, not to the, really the ones that I had been to, uh, yet. Um, and there was some of that coming on technologies changed a lot since then, but so when I first got there and then as far as the professors and, um, the classes were like, uh, things just seem to be pretty well organized. Um, and I kind of felt out of place. It was larger than any of the colleges that I had been to before. I'm kind of a, you know, I grew up on a farm, kind of a hometown type person. And so I was a little kind of intimidated at the same time. And I'd already been, this was, this would have been my fifth year at a college. So, um, I kind of already knew, uh, just how college life went. Um, but everything, it was a little larger and a little bit nicer. Um, and, uh, so it was a good first impression at the same time because of how I got there. And when I decided to go there, uh, it was kind of a last minute decision that at, at, uh, in the summer of 2010. Um, and, uh, and so I just, I just went, I just drove out there, you know, I registered, drove out there, got there. And it was just like, all right, well, here I am. I didn't even know anybody out there. Uh, come to find out once I got there, there were some few, a few people that I knew and was able to connect with. Um, but I mean, I was overall, I was just kind of ready for a good fresh start and wanted to finish my college career. Absolutely. You were there about the time that a friend of mine that I went to, uh, grew up with was there. And, uh, I understand that Paul Chappell was in this process of going more balanced in his approach, um, of sort of trying to get away from the IFB, becoming unaffiliated, lost some students, but then sort of bounced back a little bit. Uh, what would you describe while you were there, the spirit and the culture of the school, um, and the church while you were there? I feel like it was pretty balanced. Um, as far as where I was at in life and my journey and the IFB, I felt like they were more balanced than, than most. Obviously you have, you know, your students who are more radical and more like, um, wanting to, um, be legalistic and, you know, performance-based, make sure that they, you know, really honestly like, you know, the butt kissers, you know, I just trying to brown nose and that kind of thing. You have those everywhere, but I felt like, um, it was a little bit more balanced. I really appreciated, you know, a few of the professors and, uh, on staff and, and looked up to them. Um, and then there was always the, uh, the ones that, uh, are kind of, I wouldn't call them the unicorn, but just the, the ones that, uh, uh, I don't know, uh, the peculiar ones, you know, the ones that are gonna, they're just themselves. They're kind of, you know, uh, in their own category. Uh, but I felt like I got along with everybody pretty good. I felt like it was pretty balanced. The, uh, the unaffiliated, uh, that was a little bit right after I left that, that, that came around. So, um, when I was there, I don't know if it was ever really fully disclosed what happened, but I know Paul Chappell took a kind of a sabbatical for a while while I was there. And, uh, so that was, that was a little bit different cause we didn't really know what was going on and why he was absent. But, um, yeah, I don't know if, I don't know if I answered any of your questions with that answer. You're good. Yeah, no, I was, I was down at, at West Coaster in that time when he took that sabbatical and, um, had that mental breakdown of just exhaustion of the ministry growing in him having to figure out how to, how to do that. So, yeah, I was there. Brett, what's your thoughts? So, you know, one of the things that we're curious about is from your experiences while you were there, what was something that sticks out in your mind that like you appreciated the most about your time there? And on the other end of that spectrum, what was the thing that like disappointed you or was the most difficult while you were there? The thing that I really appreciated that, I mean, everybody, um, and you know, for better for worse, I don't know all the ins and outs, but everybody seemed to be pretty committed and dedicated to, um, to their job and to their, like, you know, some of the other colleges that I had went to, you know, there were, it was pastors that were coming in and teaching. Like the, this one at blessed coast, it was more like these men and women were seem to be more educated and more trained than anywhere else that I had went instead of just some pastor being thrown into something, teaching a class that he may or may not have had any idea how to teach. Uh, and they were, if you wanted to get to know them, like if you wanted, you know, they would have you over to their house. They would, um, you would see them. They, they cared about you, you know, you would give a prayer request and they would, um, they would ask you in the hallway how things were going. And, um, that was something I really appreciated. Um, and they also just seemed to be, you know, well, um, what, like I said, well-educated. The other thing that I really, I think loved about West coast was like, they were, uh, now it didn't end up working out very well for me and we can get into that later, but they were very intentional about making sure that their graduates were placed. Um, and, uh, so that they had a job, they had a, they had a ministry that they were going. And the other thing that I really appreciated about the, uh, ministry, um, uh, those that were getting a pastoral or, uh, going to be in church ministries is you have to pass an oral examination in order to get your diploma. And, uh, and so that really, I hated it when I was there because I was like, it freaked me out. I was stressed out about it, but like, um, but it really sets you up for like getting ordained and being prepared for ministry and knowing for sure that you believed, um, what you said that you believed and you knew that the Bible, what the Bible said about, um, uh, our doctrines and beliefs. And so, um, I really appreciate that. The thing that was probably more disappointing, um, honestly, uh, it was so far away from home for me. Uh, and it was so difficult to get a job over there. Um, and I think that had more to do with just California. Um, and I didn't really know anybody, you know what I mean? All the other colleges I went to were either in the South or the Midwest. And like, you could go and shake somebody's hand and say, man, look, I can come help with, with construction or something. It was really hard to get a job out there. I know that's not necessarily specifically about the school itself. Um, and, uh, the other thing that would have. Been, um, disappointing. Um, uh, we may come back to that later on in the podcast. I don't, I'm sure there were some other things, but I'm, I'm trying to draw on a blank a little bit there. You got to also remember this was, uh, how long ago was this now? Like 12, 13 years ago. Man. Okay. Yeah. Well, let me pick it back on that because I do know that that's one thing that I always heard when I was out there was Paul Chappell would say, we've got 97% of our graduates placed or those one year. It was like a hundred percent. Every single graduate had been placed somewhere. Um, my buddy had told me about the oral exams and, and all that. Well, you didn't get placed. What did that look like? How did that process go? How did they go about with interviewing and, and processing to get people into the specific ministries or jobs or whatever that looked like? Well, uh, I don't know if I'm the greatest person to ask that question to, because, um, I, I was an, I was a knucklehead and, uh, I, I was planning on coming back and working at my home church. And, um, and so, and I, I had had that on just word on just, uh, by somebody's word. And, um, and so I put down on, so they have like a senior, um, chapel, uh, they have a couple of those. And on the, um, your senior year, you would fill out a card. Like, do you know where you're going to be? Uh, do you know where you're going to be working? And if you said no, like they would actively try to help place you. They had interview days. They had lots of pastors and, um, uh, school administrators come and interview on those days. I didn't interview. I think I interviewed, um, with one person, but I already felt like I knew where I was going to go. Now, the reason why that fell apart for me is just because I had assumed that I was just going to, um, be placed at my home church and ended up coming back in and eventually working at my home church. It just wasn't as immediate as like on the piece of paper. It's probably still like, cause I've never called West coast and changed it. So if you called West coast right now, it would probably say the thing that I put on that senior chapel, which was like, man, I was so naive, right? It was like, I put like children's director, bus director, soul winning director, you know, a youth pastor. I was like, man, I'm all in. These are all the things that I knew all the things that my home church needed. And I mean, I was going to go home and fill that void. And so I just put all those things on there. I still have never called West coast and told them that I'm not there. Um, so, uh, it would probably still say that I'm doing all those things at Bible Baptist church in Jefferson city, Missouri. And, uh, so, uh, as far as I, so, so I wasn't really a part of the full blown placement process because I was, I had communicated to the college that I was already placed. Um, but I know that there were buddies of mine that, um, that had, um, went through the process and did get placed. So I feel like it went well, as far as from my angle, I, I haven't, I haven't heard any horror stories with that, but I'm, I'm sure they exist, you know? Um, and so, yeah. You know, I, I sympathize with you a little bit because I, I started out at house Anderson and then I transferred, uh, to tri state to be a little closer to home. And there were some other reasons in there. So, you know, I went to one more than one Bible college as well, but you, you also attended crown champion Shawnee, anything you can tell us about what led to those transitions? Man, no. Um, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, honestly, it's interesting kind of how we've talked about it so far, because usually when I tell any sort of my college stories, um, it West coast is where it ends, not where it begins. And so, um, yeah, I can kind of walk through all of those if, if that would be, um, yeah. So really, as I was graduating high school, um, I was going to, um, my, my dad, you know, I mean, I grew up in a, on a farm, my parents, you know, they loved me and cared for me, but they were like, you know, as soon as I got a job, they were like, all right, you're going to, you're going to have to take care of yourself and, and pay your bills and those types of things. And my parents would help me out with things and no doubt, you know, they helped me out with my college bill here and there for sure. Um, but it was never a situation where it was like, my college is going to be paid for. I just had to choose which one to go to. And so whenever I felt called to ministry and was going to go to Bible college, um, my parents were okay with that. My dad came and asked me a very wise question as I can see now, but I, I really was frustrated with it at the time. And he said, son, uh, you know, ministry is not something people go into, um, in order to feed their families. Like it's, that usually doesn't pay very well. And so like, what's your fallback? What are you going to do on the side if you need to, you know, pay the bills or provide for your family and the ministry is not bringing in enough funds. And my, my, um, uh, ultra wise response to that time was, well, you know, dad, you know, God's called me to ministry and he'll take care of me, you know? And, uh, oh, right. And so, um, yeah, who are you? You know, I honestly looked at it as a thought that this was a test, you know, from God or a distraction from the enemy. And then I wasn't going to fall for that. Right. Um, so my dad actually said, Hey, why don't you go to college here for two years and get your business, uh, uh, business associates degree. And, um, he goes, as long as your grades are good, I'll pay for your schooling. So, I mean, that was like, what? That sounds awesome. Um, well, long, longer story shorter. Um, I said no and, um, ended up going to crown, um, college of the Bible there in Knoxville, Tennessee. And, uh, I went there with, uh, with my, really my buddy, Josh, um, uh, went there, we went there together and, uh, we went and checked the college out in April, felt like that was where, um, I was going to go. And the main reason why I decided to go there, cause I was planning on going to champions. Uh, the main reason I went to crown is because, uh, the church, my home church that I grew up in, um, had a pretty prominent deaf ministry. And, uh, and at crown college of the Bible, they were also, um, they had started a program where you could get your ASL interpreting, um, license, um, in addition to all of your ministerial, um, uh, degree. So I was like, Oh, well, there's my answer. Like, cause you can start anywhere. I think at that time it was like $57 starting as a sign language interpreter. Uh, and I was like, that'll be what that, that'll be my fallback. Right. Like dad wants me to have a fallback. That's my fallback, you know? So I went to crown. Honestly, it was, it was way more high church than anything that I had been a part of the spirit there. I didn't really enjoy it. I loved the ministry aspect of every college that I went to. Honestly, also something that needs to be said is I think I'm probably about one of the worst students that there is. I just, I'm not good in a classroom. I'm not good. I want to be around people and I want to like do ministry. I don't want to sit somewhere and read a book and, you know, unless it's the Bible, amen. But, uh, and so, so, uh, so crown was a struggle for me. Um, uh, I didn't really get along with a lot of the professors or, or, or the assignments and those types of things. Now I was, I was immature. I, I, I was just not, um, a good student. I ended up, um, going back home that summer and working, uh, on a farm and, and then I was going to go back to crown, even though I didn't want to. And I just didn't have a, a good, it's just, it was, my spirit wasn't right. And, and I just kind of kept praying and asking the Lord, what did he want me to do? And I'd always originally wanted to go to champion because they actually, in most of the Bible colleges at this time just had pastoral degrees. They didn't have like a degree set up specifically for like youth pastors. And I wanted to be a youth pastor. And so, um, champion had one of those and, uh, Reno Likens was the, the Dean of youth ministries there. And, um, and I had, had known brother Reno for a little bit at the end of my, uh, high school years, going to camp and conferences and, and I really respected him. And so I ended up calling champion one week before it, before, um, college started. And I knew that they were going to be full because champion was booming at the time. And, and they had, they were really picking up speed and I'm like, yeah, all right, Lord, I'm going to call champion. And if they, if they have availability, then I'll go answers. They answer the phone. Oh, we'd love to have you. Boom. I packed up my stuff. I went down to champion. I was there for two years, uh, really got involved in a lot of ministries there, bus captain and, um, and, uh, did the first grade junior church and, um, and just really enjoyed a champion quite a bit. And brother Reno came to me at the end of those, uh, my fourth semester there. And, uh, he said, I, I need, I would like to chat with you, but I gotta wait till school's out. There's some things in the works, but I can't talk about them right now. I didn't quite know what that meant. He just said, I want you to be praying and asking the Lord to, um, just to prepare your heart for whatever he wants. I mean, okay. So someone you respect and, and, and look up to says that, I mean, that's what you do. Right. And so, um, so he came and saw me after school was over and he was letting me know that he was going to be going back to Shawnee and that champion, they were making some leadership, uh, changes and didn't quite know what was in store and thought it might be a good idea to, uh, to move along. And I had two more semesters left in his program. So, I mean, it just made sense to me, uh, you know, the, the person, the reason why I was there comes to me and says, Hey, I want you to consider this. So I was just kind of like, and I mean, I was told at the time by someone that I, uh, respected, Hey, this place is changing and they're, they're, they're possibly going to be compromising. And he didn't say it that way, but I mean, you got the general idea by how he was speaking. And, and I mean, you know, when you're in the IFB and you hear someone's compromising, man, you don't touch that with a 10 foot pole, you know? And so, um, and the way that you follow men and over the Lord there, you know, so I just followed brother Reno to Shawnee. And then when I was at Shawnee, uh, I was there for a year. I mean, that, that, that college was dying when I was there. And, and, uh, after a year there, I'd finished the program with brother Reno and, uh, and, uh, that was pretty cool. I drove for him while I was there to some of his meetings. And I went to the September, uh, I went to the graduation in September. He was the keynote speaker at the graduation at Howells Anderson. And I drove, I drove him up there and got the set in the, that was, that was an experience. That was, that was wild. Um, and, uh, anyway, uh, after being there a year, I came home and I, I felt like I had two decisions. I felt like I had a decision I had to make. I was kind of at a crossroads. I didn't want to, I didn't really want a diploma from Shawnee. I knew that they were probably not going to be around much longer. And I didn't want a degree from a place that wasn't going to exist anymore. Um, and, uh, there were some other things that were going on there, but, um, I needed to get out of that, that spot. And, um, and so while I was there at Shawnee was the transition, the pastoral transition from, um, brother Mattingly to, um, to, uh, but the Delaney, to pastor Delaney. And so that was, that was an interesting thing to be able to be there and see and how that took place. Um, but in, in, in moving, the decision was basically go back to champion or go to West coast is kind of was, was the decisions that I had to make. And, and, uh, that's kind of where the, you know, I, how's Anderson really wasn't on the table. Heartland really wasn't on the table and then golden state, I didn't know enough about it. And I knew some stuff about West coast. I'd heard some good things. And, um, and so anyway, that's where I decided to go. Cause I, I, I still knew that champion was, was moving in a different direction and just, and also there was a part of me, there was some pride in me that was like, I didn't want to leave champion to go to Shawnee and then come back a year later. It's like, Oh, okay. Yep. You changed your mind. Like, I don't know, there was just something in me that I didn't want to have to deal with that. Yeah. And, uh, you would have been able to graduate with me. And so, you know, just your loss, your loss, no big deal. Well, who knows? I mean, when you look at my, um, my track record of past fails in classes, who knows when I would have actually graduated. So, so looking at those, those three colleges that you just mentioned, crown champion Shawnee, give us like cliff note version, one sentence of each pros and cons of each college that you went to. You know, I know there's some people who really enjoyed crown. I don't, I don't know a whole lot of pros that I can say about crown college when I was there, except for, I mean, I made some friends that I still have to this day. Um, and, um, I, I loved Scott Potley when I was there and, um, you know, there was, it was my first college experience and, um, the dorms being, the guys dorms being out on Mount Moriah, that was kind of neat. Um, it's in the middle of 10, it's at, it's on the East side of Tennessee. It's beautiful country. Um, and, um, you know, I feel bad cause like my, my buddy, Josh, who I went there with, he graduated from there and he has good things, you know, to say about it. Um, but, uh, as far as cons, I mean, um, you know, from my experience, there's just a lot of appearance based stuff that went on there. You know, it's, it's what do things look like? And, uh, and just a lot of, just as long as everything looks okay in the outward, like that seems seem to be, um, pretty, pretty high on their, um, agenda and standards. So, um, cons, um, man, that seems like, that seems like a lifetime ago that I was there, honestly. Um, and, uh, yeah, it was a lifetime. You said you went in 06. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's like, oh, you're coming up on 20 years ago. You were at crown. So that's a long time to think back. It is. It is. All right. We're moving on to the next one. Champion. Okay. Champion. Man, you know, I'm going to tell you the truth. I love champion and I met my wife at champion. So, I mean, the pros, the champion, I mean, there has a lot of pros, you know, me, John. Well, I mean, I wasn't even going to go there. That's like, that's like a bonus on top of the pro, you know, um, you know, the atmosphere at champion was electric. It just was. Um, and now things weren't perfect by no means, but like, um, there was an excitement there. Now you got brother air. So, I mean, brother Eric's going to bring the electric anyway. And, uh, you know, when brother Eric tells you that he loves you, like you believe it, man. Like I remember, I remember seeing brother Eric and, um, on the sidewalk, like he was walking in from the church to the college building. And it was my first semester there. And I was like, Hey, uh, brother Eric. Uh, I was like, you know, I know you don't know who I am. He's like, what? You're Jake Carlisle. And like, and I'm like, what? Like I had never met this man in my, I had never met this man in my life. And I was coming up to formally introduce myself to him. He knew who, I don't know how he knew who I was, but he knew who I was. And like, when I got done with that conversation, I thought, I thought I was the most important person on campus. And, and I didn't even thought that I didn't think I'd ever even met the man. Right. And so like, um, you know, uh, there was just the way that they did ministry. Um, I felt like was all in, you know, um, now some people would probably say, and I may even say, looking back, like it was out of balance, but, um, I know that they went in specifically, some people would say cherry picked, you know, to, to get their staff. And I think they did a good job and picking the right people for the, um, so I don't know. I mean, I just felt like everything was, was right. And that could have been maybe just me, uh, and, and kind of where I was in life, uh, cons at champion. Um, they did things, whether they were ready for them or not, you know, whether that was like bringing on too many people or bringing on staff that they couldn't necessarily pay. Um, and I don't really know about those, the details of those stories. I just know that those things did happen. And so like, um, I'm no, I'm not going to say like, man, this is what they should have done or shouldn't have done. But like, I know, um, I know brother Eric's heart. He really just wants to love people and change, um, the world for Christ, you know? And I just don't know if that, um, if he, if everything got, um, they went about everything in the best way. So the cons would have been the way that they went about doing things, I think caused a lot of the fallout that they saw. Yeah. Um, Johnny, Johnny one year there, bro. So, well, I'll tell you this, one of the pros of Shawnee is it was, it was so small. Like, I mean, you were family. I mean, everybody, whether you liked people or not, like you saw everybody in the college all the time. Um, and then, you know, I would say that the staff there was my worst pros and cons. You know, there were some people that they were done. They didn't really want to be there. They, they, uh, um, but then, you know, like there were people there that wanted to be there. And I don't, I mean that, I don't, I wasn't there long enough to know all of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on. And they'd had a big pastoral transition while I was there. So there were so many moving parts. Um, I'd say that, you know, honestly, a con was like, they didn't seem to have a whole lot of control or a handle on, like we could honestly do whatever we wanted there. Not because they allowed it, but because we were able to, I don't know. Um, uh, and at the time I was in Bible college, you know, like now I'm a, I'm a young adults pastor and I deal with college students all the time. And, you know, the fact that we had a curfew and we had to sign in and sign out and all that stuff, like that's, they sent, that sounds insane to, to a normal college student at a different kind of a college, you know? So, um, I don't know. I, I like, I want to give Shawnee some grace just because they're kind of where they were at in the, in the phase of, of their college. Um, but, uh, pros were the people, good people. And, and, um, and I, I was kind of checked out of college when I was at Shawnee. So, um, so maybe I was the con, maybe I was the con at Shawnee, you know, I don't know. Um, it just, I, I couldn't see growing or flourishing there. And so, uh, so anyway, um, well, all right. So here's the question. If you could go back and attend one of those schools again, which one would it be and why? Well, I would not go back and attend any of the colleges. Um, you had to, if you had to go back. If I had, you had to go back. Well, I would go to champion because they're not IFB anymore. So, um, and, uh, let me caveat on that. If you had to go back to the way the college was while you were there during your two years at, uh, or one year at crown, two years at champion, one year at Shawnee, two years at West coast during that time periods, which one would you go back to? I mean, I, I'd say I'd probably go back to champions. Okay. Okay. Why? I don't know, man. It was just, uh, it was just, I don't know. I mean, you felt, you felt cared for there. Um, I felt cared for there. Um, I mean, there were some things that you're going to have ups and downs and good and bad everywhere. I don't know. I just had my best experience, you know, at that college. Um, and, um, I met my wife there. We didn't start dating until we, until I was at West coast and she was, uh, done with college. Uh, but, uh, you know, so, um, I don't know. There was just, yeah, there was a lot of connections for me. There was closest, it was closest to home. Um, so yeah, I had, I probably had my, some of my best ministry experiences there too. Yeah. All right. Well, we're going to wrap up with the last couple of questions here. Sort of rapid fire. Three questions. First one. What's one thing getting back to our West coast experience. I wrapped up moment. What is one thing that you were the most thankful for while you were at West coast? Most thing I was thankful for. I mean, they had a lot of, a lot of good, uh, preachers at chapel, um, the chapel every day. Uh, and all of it was fresh to me. I didn't know any of these people like that was, you know, I have been, you know, being so fractured and in circles and all that stuff. I didn't really, they didn't know me. They didn't know my circle out there a whole lot and I didn't know them. So, um, so that was, that was really good. And again, I think the, the oral examination that, um, we had to go through, although I hated it at the time, I think it really, uh, prepared me in a lot of ways that I didn't know it was doing. That was one thing about Paul chapel. You know, he brought in guys from like the Northeastern Illinois. You know, get Rasmussen. Some of those guys, I'd never heard of it a day in my life. And I was born and raised in the half of him the whole time. So that was when I was out of the West coast, even though these weren't West coast guys, they were, like you said, they were a circle of IFB that I'd never even heard of. Um, they felt more balanced, uh, really as I was there. Um, but again, you hear some of them and it's like, man, they were hardcore on certain issues and there wasn't a lot of balance, but I think Paul tried to have that balance. Brett, next question. Second rapid fire question. When it comes to West coast, what's one thing you wish had been different? Um, okay. One thing that I wish was different. I wish I didn't have to wear a suit and a tie every single day of my life. I mean, that's just seems so unrealistic and out of place to like the reality of life, unless you're like working at, you know, in an office in, you know, LA or Manhattan, that just doesn't make any sense to me even to this day. Yeah. All right. Last question for you. I know you've had a lot of breaks. If you've never met Jake before, Jake is a, is a thinker. He's an overthinker on everything he does. And so Jake, how has all four of these colleges, uh, specifically West coast, that's where you graduated from. Um, how has it influenced your faith as you've left the IFB, you no longer part of the IFB, you're an SPC pastor. Um, and how has it influenced that? And how, so how is your current outlook on ministry? Um, and so how has it sort of shaped all that right now? Man, I would say, um, I feel like West coast, um, did the best job that they knew how to do. To give an education. That would prepare you for ministry. Um, they actually, you know, instead of being like some other IFB colleges that are completely anti-intellectual, I felt like that they tried to, to actually get into, um, some extra biblical resources and history. Um, and, uh, just practical things. Also just practical side of ministry, um, that I was able to kind of get out of my own thoughts and my own bubbles of being a pawn for somebody. Um, you know, whether that I received all those things, um, I don't think that I did or knew how, um, I feel like they tried to do it, tried to give people, get people as best grounded as possible. Um, I would say this is that, um, uh, you know, again, I know I've said it a bunch of times, but I'm thankful for the oral examination. I'm thankful for the other thing that I've really appreciated about West coast is now that I'm a part of their alumni, I still continually get emails and sometimes even text messages from Dr. Getsch. Um, I know they're mass text messages, but still it comes and it says his name on it. Uh, it does say, if you need anything, reach out. I believe that that's true. Um, and, um, you know, uh, I kind of really separated myself from a lot of those things, but I would say, uh, where I'm at in my faith and ministry outlook currently is. You know, I'm in a, I, I'm a completely different person. I'm in a completely different place than, um, I was then. And, you know, I would say that no matter where you're planning to go to college or, uh, or what your plans are, what you're trying to do, that it's not so much about where you are. It's about who you are. And, uh, you know, I'm a, I'm a transformed, uh, person because of my relationship with Christ. And I would say, if you're trying to go somewhere to impress somebody or because your mom and dad told you to go there because a pastor or some man wants you to go there, or you're trying to please one of those, whether somebody asked you to go there or not. You're still going to be miserable in the end because at the end of the day, it's about our relationship with Jesus Christ. It's about, um, him living in, in you. And, you know, if we believe in the sovereignty of God, like we say that we do, then we're all exactly where God wants us to be right now. And he is doing the sanctification work in us. And so, like, to be patient with, with, with the work that he's doing in us, to be diligent with spending time with him and being in the word and being transformed, um, by the word. And so, like, if you will use college, no matter which one you go to, as a tool to strengthen your relationship with Christ and to strengthen the call that he's put on your life, uh, to do ministry, then I think wherever you go is going to be beneficial. But if you go for any other reason, because you want it to be a status or because you want to say that you got this piece of paper or you want to impress some man, uh, or woman in your life, like you're still going to end up in a place of, of wanting and, and a place, uh, with, uh, you know, emptiness. Just like, you know, as Solomon tells us, you know, it's all is vanity, you know, unless you're going to be living for Christ and doing, doing, um, eternal work in, in that aspect. And so, you know, as far as my faith and my current outlook on ministry, it's all about him. And so, um, it's interesting because I'm planning on going back to school and, um, I've just been talking with some folks about, uh, where to go. And I can tell you this, none of the places that we've talked about are on the list. And so, um, uh, so if you wanted to get more into that, we could, but, um, you know, I do believe that God works it all out, uh, for good to those that love him and are called according to his purpose. And, uh, you know, I'm glad that he's in charge and I'm not because I will mess it up every time. And he has a plan and he's going to see it through. And I'm grateful that I have a God that does that. Amen, brother. I love it. I thought you were going to say when you started out that model that you were transformed by your relationship with James Seyfried. I really thought that's what you were going to say. Is that, is that not, Brad, is that not what I said? I thought I, I, we can always edit. We will edit that. I don't know if we can, it's production side of that. Uh, thanks Jake for coming on and, uh, sharing your story and your time for colleges, six years. Not many people can say that. I don't know many people that I'm, we went to college with one guy that crammed four years into eight, uh, a four year degree into eight, uh, finally graduated a couple of years ago. And, uh, he's now married. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. Um, but, uh, yeah, not many people can do six years of college at four different colleges. Um, but Jake Carlisle did. And, uh, there's, there's some good things we can learn from that. And, uh, I appreciate you've been vulnerable and coming on and sharing your story. At least the first time you've probably ever talked on a podcast. You used to listen to us all the time and now you don't. But it's, it's really encouraging for us, uh, to know that. Well, um, I don't listen to any podcasts really anymore. I mean, it's just, uh, I I'd love to have the time to get back to it. And, you know, to say, I don't have the time is probably not true. I just, you know, being a dad and a husband, uh, are they are. So, but I appreciate being on here. Um, and, uh, hopefully it was helpful in some way. I kind of feel like I'm the worst guy to ask these questions too, because college was a blur. And, uh, and I haven't thought too much about it since then, especially since, you know, exiting the IFB. Um, I, I will tell you this funny story. We got, I got married in 20, uh, in March of 2013. I had three classes, online classes that, uh, that I had left. And, uh, I think my wife wrote a paper for one of them. And, uh, so I went and graduated in May of 2013 and I got my diploma. I got back in the car or whatever, after the celebration was over. And I told my wife, I said, you know, I think I'm ready to, I think I'm finally ready to learn. And, uh, and she said, well, I'm not going to college for you. So you're not, you're not going to any college. So, so, uh, but now I think I'm, I'm, I'm ready to get my masters possibly and, and, uh, getting ready to start seeing what that looks like. We love it. Well, thank you guys for listening today. Thanks Jake for coming on. Uh, until next time to God be the glory. Great things. See you guys. I found my new name. Found that good grace. Found that healing. And the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning. That has no ending. Found that second chance. Found my best friend. Found my forgiveness. Found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. Found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast or whichever podcast platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for the for freedom podcast. Thank you.

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