174. Fundamental Footprints - The Rebecca Davis Interview - Testimony from BJU

1. Opening Song and Welcome

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   I found my freedom in you I found a joy I can't lose And thank God it's true You wrapped your arms around me And heaven broke through From the moment you found me I found my freedom in you Welcome to the 4-Freedom Podcast.

   This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James Safrit and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the 4-Freedom Podcast today.

   Me and James are in studio and we're bringing you on the podcast this morning. We're glad to be here. It's a great day to be saved.

   It's a great day to be in church. It's a great day to be a child of God. James, we've got something great lined up today in just a minute, but before we get to that, how are things in your neck of the woods?

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   Man, things are good. We are, apparently they just started working on my car from the accident that I had a couple weeks ago. So getting some of those processes done and man, we're gearing up.

   I mean, we're just a couple of days for me. I'm going out to Dallas a little soon

   to be out there with my sister and McKinney. And so, man, we're gearing up to get everything done. I've been busting it this week to get all my sermon prep in and that way I don't have to work on much of that while I'm on vacation. But yeah, man, it's been wide open.

   We finished school last week and now we're gearing up for Texas. And we've had this interview today, man.

   It's phenomenal. And I'm excited about jumping into it in a little bit. But man, we've been wide open. It's been great.

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   We've got this weekend, Brett, my sister-in-law was texting me and saying, hey, can you come hang out with us? I told her, I said, I've got, Birdie's got a baseball game on Friday. I've got two graduations on Friday.

   Saturday, I've got a church cleanup day from eight to four. We've got a youth car wash from 10 to 12. We've got Sunday service. After Sunday service, I've got a church council meeting.

   Sunday evening, I've got to take the dog and drop it off at the sitters so that we can get ready for our trip to Texas. I said, I don't know when I'm going to have time to even come and see you guys, much less breathe. Like it's been wide.

   It's going to be wide open. And so I'm excited.

   It's going to be a great time getting everything in for Texas. And it's going to be a great, great thing.

4. Community Events and Activities

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   We've got a community day plan this coming Saturday at the local Dollar General store. We're going to cook like 200 hamburgers,

   bring them out in the parking lot from 11 to 2 and just hand those out. And so we're just, we've been trying to work out logistically. We've never done anything like this before.

   And so we're just going back and forth and how's the best that we need to get the pre-cooked burgers? Do we need to get the uncooked? Cause they'd be cheaper.

   Just have somebody cook them. And so a lot of logistics and trying to plan this date, but my people are really excited about it because one of the things I was, I've been pushing lately is servant evangelism. It's going outside the walls of the church, going out into the community, meeting needs.

   And that's what this thing is all about. And then, like I said, we've got a busy, busy month.

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   We've got this going on. Then we've got Dallas. We come back from Dallas. We've got a week long VBS. And so a lot of things, a lot of things going on.

   And so we're coming up close on our summer break too. Just a couple more episodes and we'll be in our summer break for the podcast. But that doesn't mean that things are stopping here at the 4-Freedom Podcast because we've got not only things going on this summer,

   but me and you still got some recordings this summer for when the season starts back up. We've got some great interviews lined up.

   We've got some good things coming down the pike. Some things we're really excited about. And we can't wait to share those with you when the time is appropriate. Absolutely. We have thoroughly enjoyed this foundational, fundamental footprints and looking at some forefathers of the IFB.

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   We're not done with that. We've got some great legacy people we're going to talk about as we conclude this in the first couple of weeks of our fall season.

   We've got interviews lined up with guys that many have asked, are you going to talk about Ruckman?

   We're going to talk about Peter Ruckman. We've got a guy that was born and raised in the system of Ruckman. And he's going to come on and share some of his experience. We're going to talk about Tennessee Temple. We're going to be talking about Champion.

   We're going to talk about West Coast Baptist College. We're going to talk about Commonwealth.

   We're going to be talking about some of these newer ones as well. And then we're really excited, Brett, because we're going to be talking through some camp meeting stuff and some of that vein of it. And so we've almost got our entire fall winter season lined out already

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   with just the excitement that's been going on with what we've been talking about. And so if you've been, if you've got a story you want to share, again, we've got an interview today. We want to have you on there. Reach out to us.

   And if you've had an experience at any of the colleges that we've talked about or any of the people that we've talked about or some of the people we're going to talk about, reach out to us.

   Maybe we, maybe there's someone that you were raised under or you are familiar with that we have never heard of. We're not the all-knowing James and Brett, even though most people think we are.

   We want to be able to incorporate that into the series that we're doing and hopefully be a help to people. And then, of course, Brett, our cigar line is completely out and rolling,

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   not out of stock, but completely out and ready to go.

   We've got four different lines of cigars and it's going to be a great thing. If you haven't got any, now is the time to order to get them in for Father's Day. Be looking at some great things coming up next week. We're going to be announcing something great

   that you can do for your Father's Day gifts. And so if you can, if you want to jump on that, it'd be great. Go to our website.

   You can also go to 1689cigars.com backslash for Freedom Cigars and you can see those things and just a great opportunity to support the podcast, help us out in our endeavors.

   Believe it or not, we've got website fees. We've got hosting fees. We've got some other things that do cost some money. And so this is a good way for us to give you something tangible in ways to support what we're doing.

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   And if you're going to be in Dallas, if you're going to be in the area, let us know. We'd love to get together with you and hang out. Brett, we've also got something coming up in 2026. We're coming up on our first deadline. Tell us about that. Yes. 2026, we've got our Israel

   trip still planned. We're coming up on a deadline end of June for registration and the first payment. And we are going for Freedom of the Holy Land. We are going to Israel. We want you to come with us. It's going to be a great trip. It's great price.

   And as always, we're going to have a great time in the Holy Land. We've got some places that we've been before, some places that we actually haven't been before. That'll be new to us, but that's what makes it exciting. There's always something to see.

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    This is a life-changing trip and we want you to go. And so, check out our website on that and come to the Holy Land with us. It's safe. They've got tours on the ground. If you're thinking about going, that means you should go. So, come with us.

    Absolutely. And without further ado, we are looking at and excited about the interview today.

    I want to just read just a short bio of Rebecca. She is a trauma-informed Christian book coach.

    She's put out several books called The Twisted Scripture Books. It's all based on her 40-plus years of Bible study. And she's excited to see the Lord work in mighty different ways.

    And so, we're excited to jump into this interview today. I hope you enjoy it. And as always, if you are encouraged by it, share it, leave a review, give us a five-star, one-star, just to make it count in however you give us that review.

11. Introduction of Rebecca Davis

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    And we look forward to talking again next week and enjoy this episode today.

    We're excited today to have with us Rebecca Davis. Rebecca is a wonderful person that we've been able to get a hold of over the last couple of weeks and months. I've been connected to her through Shannon McEagena.

    You may remember her episode back in episode 150 or so. She shared her story and we have been able to talk with Miss Rebecca for a little bit. And she's a Bob Jones grad and here to share some of her story today. So, Rebecca, let's get started today.

    Introduce yourself, tell us who you are, and we'll jump into the interview today. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

    Pertinent to this particular interview, I am a graduate of Bob Jones University with my master's degree way back in 1983. I got my master's degree in math education.

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    That isn't what I'm doing now, but I did do it for a while. And that, my experience at Bob Jones was a pretty decent experience. I wasn't abused.

    I didn't like the rules, but I was fairly compliant. I got called into the dean's office for having a messy room and they couldn't give me demerits for it because I was a grad assistant. So, I do remember that.

    But, but in general, it was a pretty decent experience in part because I was working at Bob Jones University Press and I really loved it there. And I knew nothing about any abuses that were going on behind the scenes. Then, my journey continued and here I am today.

    So, I guess that will be part of the interview, right? Absolutely.

    Great. Well, as we get started today, I want to sort of begin by talking about your time with survivors and abuse and the, we'll talk about the Grace Report in just a little bit, but sort of how your relationship

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    opened your eyes to sort of a deeper issue inside the church

    when it came to survivors and especially when you begin hearing reports of people from your alma mater, right?

    This is a big eye-opening experience that you didn't see any while you were there. This was, by the way, way before I was born. I was born in 88, so you graduated before I was born. And so, you began to see some of these things.

    So, how did these begin to, when you began connecting with some of these survivors, what was that like? Yes. Well, that's kind of my origin story for my Untwisting Scriptures books, we might say.

    In 2012, a mutual acquaintance, or an acquaintance called me because she saw me communicating with someone on Facebook and she called me on the phone and started asking me questions and I couldn't understand what she was talking about.

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    She seemed very troubled and she lived not far away and so we started getting together and I started listening to her story and it turned out she had been abused and Bob Jones University had mishandled her abuse and like majorly, horribly mishandled her abuse situation and

    I knew nothing, I knew nothing about this sort of thing. I hadn't been abused in my life and I'm talking about sexual abuse. I hadn't been abused and people in my circles hadn't ever talked about it.

    I hadn't ever heard about it. I was very upset because I was in my 50s and I was thinking I should have known I've been in church all my life. People should have been talking about this. I should have known this was a real problem that needed to be addressed

    and the more I learned she asked me to please read the blogs and Facebook pages and at that time it was 2012

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    and there was a lot of blogging out there and there were the Facebook was just really getting going at that time and I dove into it with a ready will and started reading and studying and learning and I

    knew a little bit about domestic abuse because of a previous friend and that was a whole new thing to me. That's a different story but they ended up merging at some point but this seemed quite separate to me at the time that women

    children were being abused by their pastor fathers and their missionary fathers and their youth leaders and their pastors and it was just like it was absolutely overwhelming to me and I began speaking about it cautiously and carefully on

    Facebook and at that time the reason the woman was thinking and talking about this was because Bob Jones University was being investigated for having mishandled cases of sexual abuse and as you just mentioned the organization investigating them was

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    GRACE G-A-R-C-E Godly Response! To Abuse in a Christian Environment! That was the name of it the head of the organization at that time was Baz Chivijian and they had not signed to be investigated by them at that point

    and lots of people were trying to pressure them to sign to be investigated it was like a big kerfuffle that was going on that I had been unaware of because I was just living my life and doing other things and so I began to get educated

    and months later after I'd been being educated for probably six months I started cautiously speaking about it and people started coming to me in private messages saying I was abused too I was abused too and I began to

    feel like I was the one in the minority like I was the only person who hadn't been abused there were so many abuse survivors

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    coming out at that time and more and more I began to speak and it just grew it snowballed from there

    and so that was like my first year of getting into it mostly just speaking on my own Facebook page that was it and so some people were speaking to me saying I was abused too

    so recently we've seen a lot of survivors begin to come forward with the telegraph that came out from the New York in Texas and then with the guidepost stories that came out with SBC

    we've began to see the survivors feel strength to come forward and be able to talk about things how has that made you feel

    and really be able to see in light of events of people being able to come forward publicly how was that for you so I was seeing that in 2012 and the difference was from the past when I had

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    no awareness of it the difference was social media before social media didn't exist then when MySpace got started it was not it was not the phenomenon that Facebook became

    with like most of the people in the entire world getting on Facebook it was it was a phenomenon never never seen before and it was the first time in history that the little guy had a platform the little

    guy could write something or say something and in those days it was just writing and be read by

    hundreds or even thousands of people because of shares so it was an entirely new phenomenon and even back then more and more people were starting to speak and people like me

    people like me who wanted to learn I was going specifically to their Facebook pages and their

    blog posts their blogs and reading what they had to say and I was learning I couldn't always sort out is all really true it was extremely overwhelming to me I will tell you it was very very overwhelming and

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    there were many ways in which I just wanted to pull away I didn't want to be overwhelmed like this I had a good life I was raising my children and I had a decent marriage and you know I was going on about my life why

    in one sense not really not totally but there was this question like why do I have to be pulled into this awfulness but there was there was a calling inside of me I believe from the Lord that said

    this is an important place for you to go this it's important for you to learn these things so it hasn't just been recent that people have been speaking out it started as soon as as soon as there was a platform for them

    excuse me as soon as there was a platform for them they started speaking out and it just grew and grew and grew and because of that platform and now of course it's been podcasts too

20. The Role of Social Media

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    podcasts came along after blogs they overlapped by a little bit I mean people still blog but you see blogs started in the early 2000s and podcasts started around 2010 or so and so there are more and more and

    more platforms for people to speak that's what's made the difference it's not that people didn't speak before and now they are it's just that now they have the platforms for people to actually listen to them in the past

    the churches or I shouldn't say just churches but all the leaders any leaders any people with that position of authority the person with the microphone controlled the narrative the person like if it's in a church setting the pastor

    and his his elders controlled the narrative and the people back in the pews they didn't have a voice unless the pastor decided to give them a voice so this just completely changed the dynamic and I'm very grateful that

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    more and more voices are coming out even though it's horrific to see the state of the church that so many people I believe go into church leadership specifically because it's a good way to find people to abuse that those people who have been abused are able to speak out

    well we kind of want to talk about the process of the grace investigation how did that unfold at Bob Jones like talk about what kind of cooperation or resistance you encounter from the university leadership during the investigation well

    I wasn't involved in the investigation I only watched it as an outsider so I can tell you my perspective as an outsider watching it unfold in 2012 people were asking the school to

    get this investigation done and there was a catalyst for that it was in 2011 Bob Jones the third who was president at that time no he wasn't president at that time but he was the former president and he

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    was the chancellor if I remember correctly he said on the platform that the university had always handled cases of sexual abuse correctly

    and so there was an outcry from all the people whose cases were not handled correctly as you can imagine and

    so they were pushing them to have this investigation by the time I entered the scene that push was really going strong well they didn't get hired until 2014 perhaps January maybe February I don't know but right around there so it was a long process and the investigation began

    I don't remember the exact dates because I was on the outside but I do remember this part in January or February of 2014 Bob Jones University fired Grace

    and there was this huge outcry about it and for two weeks I was on Facebook it felt like 24-7 answering people's questions trying to encourage people and

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    pushing for BJ to BJU to rehire this would be like on Bob Jones University's Facebook page

    and responding to all the pushback that came I had been speaking more and more since 2012 it was becoming more and more a thing but it was still it was only on my own personal page on Facebook that was pretty much it but when I started responding like the people saying

    guilty until I mean innocent until proven guilty or he that answereth the matter before he heareth it it is folly and shame unto him bitterness the root of bitterness you must be bitter Rebecca

    so many different things that people were coming at me about and I was thinking at that time

    that's when it really really overwhelmed me it was during those two weeks that I was saying wow Christians really don't know the Bible because I knew the word of God enough to know that verses were being taken out of context verses were being misapplied

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    they weren't practicing critical thinking at that time I was thinking Christians can't think logically it was really critical thinking skills that I was or a lack of critical thinking skills that I was observing

    and I started writing more and more I started writing long back in those days Facebook had what they called notes and I was writing long Facebook notes and people started telling me how much I appreciated them I started responding to the misuses of scripture and eventually I put up a website

    to respond to the misuses of scripture and that I believe the website is defunct now but most of the things that I wrote about eventually went into my untwisting scriptures books so it was really Bob Jones University was the catalyst for the untwisting scriptures work that I'm doing now

    that's great you know for those that may know grace is

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    godly response to abuse in the Christian environment so some people were throwing that name out they may not have heard of it before I know up until recently when Shannon got me a hold of you I had not heard of the grace report at all and had not known about it

    so that was huge for me Brett you had something to say there I just you know as an observer looking in you hear these survivor

    testimonies and I know that they can be powerful they can be impactful can you just speak into the testimonies of the survivors for a minute and tell me what kind of impact that made

    I will tell you when I was hearing the stories I would go to bed in a fetal position I would cry and cry and cry and it was very very hard for me I was not trained

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    to know about these things I did not know I had read about wickedness in the Bible but I didn't understand or know about the depth of wickedness and the depth of hypocrisy that was going on around me all the time I felt like

    I had entered an alternate universe this was all a big part of what I needed to to

    understand come to grips with during the especially that first year 2012 2013 I would even say into 2014 so it took quite a while I was also doing research constantly not just the blogs and Facebook pages that got

    recommended to me but I started reading scholarly works and reading memoirs from survivors and I went to trainings so I was I'm informally trained I have no

    letters after my name except that master's degree in math that I got from BJU but I was becoming trained to the best of my ability I didn't know anything about flashbacks and the nightmares caused by abuse and I

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    didn't know about dissociation I had all these things to learn it was such a steep learning curve and I went to the Lord and I said I do not have the capacity for this my capacity is like a thimble

    and then I said to the Lord you have all the capacity in the world can you give me a greater capacity to hold these stories without it just completely knocking me over I had been feeling like it was just tsunami after tsunami after tsunami and I was just I was drowning

    and I asked the Lord for greater capacity and I did a lot of sleeping because that was one way for me to recover from the stories I was hearing but the Lord did over time increase my capacity he also increased my ability not to

    trigger people I never heard of triggering I didn't know what triggering was and I was triggering people right and left without without

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    realizing it and I said Lord you have called the wrong person I'm like a bull in a china shop I don't know what I'm doing will you call someone else to this work and can I just go back to doing something kind of normal like homeschooling and I can

    where I didn't know what I was doing I needed to get trained and I needed to rely on him so the stories had a powerful impact on me and you know people have asked me what do you do how do you figure out what's true and what's not true

    I'm not trying to sort out details I'm going with the big picture the big picture says something terrible has happened and people are deeply affected by it

    and they have experienced great trauma at the hands of others not a nameless trauma but at the hands of others and that means great evil is taking place in the world and I will tell you it was like

29. Understanding Spiritual Warfare

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    my world went from pastel to full color because I started to really see righteousness and wickedness I started to really see the spiritual battle the evil in the world such evil so much evil because I wasn't just learning about

    molestation or you know the youth leader taking advantage of the girl in his youth group I was learning about trafficking I was learning about ritual abuse I was just like it was really really

    overwhelming to me to come face to face with the evil that was going on in very often in the guise of Christianity because that was the door through which I entered this and I certainly know these things take place in other areas too there's Hollywood and there's the politicians and everything but

    Christianity and the church is the door through which I entered this arena and so that's the world where I was seeing it and by the grace of God he gave me the capacity and I now meet with survivors!

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    to seek healing and discouraging I can say for myself when we look back and we see these places that we love we cherish we adore we have so many fond memories of and we began to hear things that happen that just shatter

    our image of what we had for them and things that we lifted to such a high elevation

    you did we're going to skip number three we're going to go number four you mentioned on Facebook notes and on your website

    how you had began publishing some of these things I can imagine there was some pushback that was happening with that sort of talk about the pushback that was happening and then you also mentioned about the misuse of scripture

    how we were quoting certain things and how scripture was being misused what sort of revealed to you in that area about the misunderstanding of scripture from your perspective

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    so the first woman who came to me and started talking to me and I listened to her a lot and I spent a lot of time listening I spent far more time listening and talking because I knew

    I didn't understand and I knew I needed to learn and I learned so much from the abuse survivors themselves but two of the areas that she talked about

    that were very significant to me she talked about several but two of the ones that came out as most significant to me was we were taught we should give up our rights and I thought that sounds kind of familiar I think I remember that and the other one was

    we were taught that if we speak about it we're just bitter and we'll be a root of bitterness that will defile many and I thought oh yeah that sounds familiar too well both of them are based in the

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    teachings of Bill Gothard and probably other people but Bill Gothard is the one that I tracked it back to and my responses to these two terrible teachings that are not scriptural and that serve to keep people in a

    place of oppression my responses to those became part of my very first untwisting scriptures book in 2016 some of the pushback on

    I should have looked it up before we came to the interview because it was a while back so I'll do the best I can remember

    one of them I mentioned a minute ago was he who answers the matter before he hears it it is folly and shame to him and people were telling that to me like I was speaking out about this without ever having heard the matter and so I was showing my folly and I thought

    that's like I was incensed that's ridiculous I have been hearing this matter for years for years

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    and you're the one who hasn't! hearing the matter I was thinking because you need to listen to the survivors themselves and another one was innocent until proven guilty which of course is not scripture but it's America and I thought well I wrote a whole blog post to refute that a person is

    deemed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law but of course if the person is guilty if the person is actually guilty then the person he abused in this case because we're talking about abuse

    she doesn't have to assume him innocent she knows that he's guilty she doesn't have to say no he's innocent he hasn't been proven guilty in a court of law yet so he's innocent she doesn't have to say that

    and and I said any witnesses to the crime don't have to say that and so

    I just thought that's illogical that's not unscriptural because it's not in the Bible but it's illogical it's not carrying through the thought it's not looking at the big picture it's taking this tiny little phrase out of context out

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    of the context of the way the American legal system is set up

    and applying it outside of that so those are two if I racked my brain I could come up with probably a dozen more but oh another one people said was well rape happens everywhere and I thought I mean my head wanted to explode I thought what in the world that's an excuse

    like how can you possibly say that's an excuse for what is happening now so it was astonishing to me I was absolutely astonished and I was I felt punched in the gut over and over and over but I kept coming back for more because I must be a glutton for punishment

    well you know you had a striking realization Christians don't know the Bible and Christians don't think logically can you unpack what kind of led to that conclusion and how your thinking has evolved since then

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    well my thinking has evolved since then to say well the Christians I was working with

    coming at me at that time so I don't want to say all Christians don't know the Bible and all Christians don't think logically because of course that's not true and that would be very illogical to say that but the ones who are stuck in fundamentalist thinking thinking that my authority

    must always be right and I must always submit to my authority and never question them those people are in big trouble

    those people need to know the truth those people I often think about how Jesus said he who has ears to hear let him hear

    and I pray for people to have ears to hear that they may hear and when I write and untwist!

    scriptures and I have six books in my untwisting scriptures series so far so I have been doing a lot of untwisting scriptures and on my website which your listeners can get to by going to untwistingscriptures.com

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    on that website I have a lot more untwistings that aren't in any of my books so you can see there are a lot of twisted scriptures

    and my thinking has evolved in the past it's been close to 10 years well it's been over 10 years since I started but since I started the untwisting scriptures work about 10 years I would say that I see a similar pattern over and over and that is

    basically two things there are a lot more but I'm going to name the main two that I've seen and one is I am the authority never question me the other is everything that you think is going wrong is really

    so that those two things and all these different scriptures and all these different non-scriptural things that sound scriptural like believe the best and things like that that's not in the Bible but people think it is

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    all of those things are brought against abuse survivors and those who want to help abuse survivors to silence them you are going against your authority or the pseudo authority and

    you haven't dealt with all that sin in your own heart how dare you be speaking up about anything when you haven't dealt with the sin in your own heart first and that teaching is still very prevalent in the Christian world I I I I

    I I I I textual and scriptural error by teaching what the misuse of scripture is and how it's in their proper context and so just trying to balance that out sounds a lot like what you're doing with the

    untwisting scripture absolutely yes i'm looking at context looking at at who i put a lot of emphasis on pronouns who is the person speaking who's he speaking to to if he says i or me that doesn't necessarily that

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    isn't talking about the reader it's talking about the speaker and you might apply it to yourself or you might not let's look at the context let's look at why he said it things like that so that christians can

    have a right understanding of the word of god and of course the way translations have been mis misdone to make things say things that they don't to make verses say things they don't even say absolutely so in the

    process this will be our last question and we'll open up for anything that you have uh in the process of writing these books and and putting them out um what what did you what was your goal in in

    offering hope to the readers but also has there been feedback to you from publishing these books have people reached out and said hey these were this this point that you used or this thought was a great great thing

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    to help me grow sort of share some some personal testimony from from the books that you've written

    sure what was your first you had two questions what was the first one sorry yes what hope did you plan to offer yes all right yes perfect i am a book coach that's my profession this what we're talking

    about here is my ministry and in my book coaching business i encourage my clients to think about their target reader and their goal for their target reader well so you're asking me one of my big book coaching questions

    who's your target reader what's your goal for your target reader my target reader is very specific that is people who have experienced spiritual abuse and i define spiritual abuse as

    the misuse of the word of god and the character of god to keep people in a place of bondage and oppression

40. Helping Survivors Find Hope

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    people who have experienced spiritual abuse who are recognizing that something's wrong but they still want to know who god really is a lot of people once they recognize the abuse they say that's it i'm done i'm out of

    here i'm walking away from everything that's happened a lot as all of us know and it's it's so grievous it breaks my heart that that happens because they're walking away from a god that was is not the true

    god of the scriptures and so i'm writing these books for the people who want to know who god really is who they really are what the bible really means who are willing to walk with me as i walk

    with them to to investigate and to see the beauty of who our lord jesus christ really is because the real picture is so beautiful and he loves them so deeply and wants relationship with them so that's my goal

41. 40:26

    that's my target reader and my goal for my target reader to help them understand who god really is who they really are what the bible really says and how they really can have relationship with the lord and yes

    i do get emails regularly i get a lot of emails thanking me for one thing or another and i have a regular email that goes out every week and sometimes it will let people know like about an interview

    i've just done or or a blog post i've just written but often it's just what i call a tiny and twisting

    it's a little it's a teaching that i can address in a fairly short amount of space to help people understand people can get access to that by going to my website which you can get to through untwisting scriptures

    .com i've got several free offerings there you could actually get untwisting scriptures book number six in audiobook form for free just by signing up you can also get a guide that is called how to enjoy the bible again

42. 41:26

    when you're ready without getting triggered how to enjoy the bible again after spiritual abuse when you're ready without feeling guilty or getting triggered out of your mind so that free guide is there too in both written and audio

    form for you and once you sign up to get any one of my free things you'll be getting on my mailing list and you'll get regular emails from me just to help you understand the scriptures better to untangle some of those teachings

    maybe ones that i didn't address in my book or on my blog or maybe just a small repeat of one tiny little piece of something i talked about in my book books so i've gotten many many responses

    feedback from the emails from the books to thank me for them so yes i've gotten a lot of that

    rebecca we want to thank you so much for coming on with us today and i know me personally can't wait to check out your books i'm definitely going to be somebody that signs up um just want to ask

43. Closing Thoughts and Resources

    42:31

    you as we get ready to close if you had any closing thoughts or anything you'd like to add or any of your listeners who have experienced abuse sexual abuse domestic abuse violence of any kind

    trafficking any kinds of of abuse that you can think of if you've been in the church the spiritual abuse is the web that holds all of the other abuses in place because you are made to feel like god

    is on the side of the abuser and maybe god is an abuser himself and what i want to offer you is hope there is hope to get out of this shame fear and confusion the three the three big results the big the three big

    demons that you carry on your back when you come out of abuse you can be delivered from shame fear and confusion and you can know you really can know who god really is i know hope is a scary

44. 43:44

    word for a lot of people but there really is hope to know the true god and to know his love for you and it's a pure love it's not a love that wants to take advantage of you it's not a love that's conditional on your performance

    it's it's a gracious free and full love through our lord jesus christ through faith in the lord jesus christ you can receive the love of god and you have people who love you and who want to walk with

    you and who are cheering you on that's great there's hope there's encouragement out there and uh there's people like rebecca who are doing tons of work to help expose things but also to help give that that hope for

    those next steps and that's what i love um is not just showing you there's wrong but also how to work through that how to work through the process um so i love that thank you for coming on with

45. 44:35

    becca this has been great thank you we'll link all those websites in our show notes so if you didn't quite get one we'll put that in there so you can go to unquisting scriptures and her website and everything

    um so thank you for coming on and until next time all right god bless you bye-bye until next time to god be the glory great things he has done

    found my new name found that good grace found that healing and the tears fell down my face when i found my beginning has no ending found that second chance found my best friend found my forgiveness i've been singing ever since

    thanks for listening to the 4-Freedom Podcast if you enjoyed our content do us a favor by liking subscribing or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast platform you use be sure to join us next time for the 4-Freedom Podcast

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