96. RFP Crossover Event with the Starving For Truth Podcast Part 1

I found my freedom in you I found a joy I can't lose And thank God it's true You wrapped your arms around me And heaven broke through From the moment you found me I found my freedom in you Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, John Hollenfield and James Saifert. What kind of shallow person do you want to become? Recovering from fundamentalism or something. They're everywhere. And I think to myself, well you were just stupid to begin with. If there's such a word, you're stupider now. Don't get flubbed up like us. And all you flubbed up people, you come and we'll all flub up together. Hello, we're on episode 32 of the Starving for Truth podcast. We are with the For Freedom podcast today. This is Tyler speaking. And I'm Austin. This is Chance. And I'm John. And I'm James. Well, it's great to be able to do this podcast with you guys today. I'm going to read a verse, Galatians chapter 5, verse 1. It says, For freedom, Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. What we're going to do today is we're going to go kind of back and forth with some questions to just introduce podcasts. And then also kind of dive into some subjects here. Both of us are on the RFP network. And that's kind of how we connected and we hooked up. And so, let's see. We'll just go with the first question will be for James and John. What is the goal for your podcast? Or like what does For Freedom mean as a podcast? Okay. I will start that off and then, James, I'll pass it over to you. But thank you guys for having us on. We're brothers in Christ and also sort of brothers in the RFP network. And so, it's good to get together. I've been spending some time with these guys. But we are the For Freedom podcast. We started – I started the podcast in June of 2020. And with sort of a goal, I guess, I had given my story on what was known as – what is the Preacher Boys podcast. And something that was sort of bugging me for a while. And I did that, but it didn't go away. That bug was still there. And I had talked to a lot of people who had gone through fundamentalism and left and just sort of – you know, you get that feeling where you've been taught something. Then you feel lied to. And, you know, you started sort of questioning everything. And you see some people just leave church altogether. And God had been gracious to me to have a mentor, somebody that just directed me into sound theology and that type of thing. And so, the initial goal was to have something out there that threw up a net, if you will, for people doing that, going through that transition of saying, like, yes, that's wrong. But the Bible is still relevant. The Bible is still there. And I'm trained in biblical counseling. So is James. And over time, James came in with me. He actually helped me get it started to begin with. But James came with me on the microphone. And we've transitioned a podcast over time. So our goal is really to – because we don't feel like we're the only ones speaking into the realm of theology. And there's better ones doing that. And I think that you guys would qualify as ones that are doing that better than we are. And so we wanted to do something as far as, like, dealing with life issues, dealing with just the stuff of how theology is not just for this. It also can be applied to the life issues. And so bringing that sort of counseling principles, those types of things, bringing the Bible as it rests on everyday life. James, what do you think? Yeah, absolutely. And most recently, you know, me and John, we grew up together as children in church. And our life has been intermingled. I was in his wedding. And he wouldn't come to my wedding because he doesn't like me. And so we – going through this, again, our biggest goal is trying to help those who have been hurt by the spiritual abuse and legalism. And so that is our biggest goal is trying to give – offer hope and help with a biblical perspective in everyday life. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned you were on the Preacher's Boy podcast, and we understand that Eric has deconstructed his faith. Correct. And so instead of deconstructing your faith, what your focus was is you wanted to be grounded in your faith. Right. And so how are some ways that – because you have the different pentamilism swings, like people leaving the faith, abandoning the faith, but you still stand on truth. You still – people who are abused, you want them to have justice and those things. But what was – I guess what was the guiding hand not to lead you to deconstruction but to, I would say, reformation? Yeah, that's a great question. One word that I have heard recently, and I'm like, man, I love that word. I wish I had come up with it, that I heard Ginger Volo say on an interview, and she is from the Duggars, the famous documentary that's out now. She married a guy, and they – her and Jeremy have come out, and she just has a book out. And she used this term, and I loved it because it's not deconstruction. It's disentangling. Yeah. And I thought that that really helps it – helps understand a little bit of what it really is. But I think that – I've thought a lot about that subject too because I was thinking about writing an article for the biblical counseling website, and I had it – I sent it to a seminary professor. I had to get some things. I just never have pulled the trigger. I'm releasing the article about why the Bible is appropriate to use for spiritual abuse because what happens with spiritual abuse a lot is that people believe that the Bible is the weapon of that abuse. Yeah. And so therefore the common understanding is that, well, the last thing you want to do to help somebody with spiritual abuse is the Bible. Yeah. That's the last thing you want to use. And my thinking is – my position is more like, no, that's what we want to. And so I would say it's rooted – what does John mention who Christ is? He's the Word. Yeah. And I think that it's rooted, first of all, in Christ, but even further than that, deeper than that, what we see, Christ, is the good news of the gospel. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just a real short answer to that. James, did you have anything to add to it? You know, when it comes to deconstruction, for me personally, I know John has went a different – his life is in a different area than mine. I never really had that big pendulum swing. Mine was just an awakening to understanding what was true and what wasn't true in my life. It wasn't this massive, like, I'm going left or I'm going right based on what I was taught. It was just me learning what I believed and why I believed it for me true for myself. So for me, it was a different area. Mine began with the King James only doctrine, I guess you could say, whatever you want to say on it. And that was sort of my tipping point because I began to get in churches where they weren't kingdoms only. It was the first time ever. And I wanted to discover what that meant for me personally. And so it was a lot of debates that I watched, a lot of digesting what is real, what is not, what is true, what has just been spouted for the last 30 years. And there's no truth behind it at all. And so that's where, for me personally, it was just understanding what I believed and why I believed it. And so that was sort of where I was at. Yeah, James is very much the difference between the two of us is James was sort of like, show me what makes sense. Okay, that didn't make sense. This makes more sense. I'll go along that way. Very much me, I was more like, that's a lie. Burn the house down. And it's really God's grace that has sort of shaped both of us to, I think, where we're at right now. Yeah, and we've been really on the King James only issue. I mean, we've been driving that home for, we have probably five, we will have five episodes coming on about that. So how did you disentangle your King James only position and what led you to kind of getting out of that doctrine? Yeah, my personally want for me was studying Scripture for Scripture. And the biggest one was the Ankerberg debate with James White, the new King James only guys. And then your table, your round table of your five or six King James only, your, I don't remember the guy's names even now. But going back and forth and seeing those some things and then, you know, hearing some of the things that I heard my whole life preached and taught in school and in church and in chapels, hearing some of those things brought back up. And then them trying to catch, you know, James White in some type of argument. And then James White rebuttal in it in a logical fashion, not in a mean spirit or anything. And then James White trying to ask a question. And then one of those guys saying, oh, you're just trying to, you're trying to catch me and you're trying to say something to get me off base. And really seeing them in that setting was an eye-opening experience for me. So the Ankerberg debate was a fantastic tool for me to be able to go through that. And then, of course, then after that, reading James White's book on the King James only-ism was a great asset for me going through that. John, what about you? Mine was a pastor. I was very much, I left the church that I was at very much King James only and was sort of spouting off some King James only-ism to this pastor. And he just asked me a question, and I was like, all right, this is my chance to give my defense of why the manuscript line was corrupt. And he just took the same logic, and I'm using air quotes here, that I was using for King James only-ism and twisted it around on me. Because my logic was the Bible uses Egypt. The manuscripts come from the Egyptian corrupted line. And because of that, you can't trust those because Egypt is a sign of the world. And he just looked at me, and he told me later, he said, I don't believe this, but it's along the same logic that you're using, which is bad logic. And this is what he said. He said, you know what else Egypt is? I said, what? He said, using your argument, Egypt is also a place of preservation. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, God preserved the children of Israel there in Egypt for 400 years. And where did God send Christ to preserve him from Herod? Oh, they went to Egypt for two years. So couldn't it be that using that same line of thinking that God would preserve manuscripts in Egypt? And I didn't know what to say. And then after he tried to explain to me, both of those lines of thinking are not good logic with how you come to a decision. And so then I was like, I've got to search this out. I didn't know there was an alternative viewpoint. And it was like, oh, none of this makes sense. And it sort of came down to it. And you think the house of cards comes tumbling down when you address the King James only position. Absolutely. Yeah. That's what we've been noticing since our Sunday here at church when Nathan preached. I've just gotten about four or five messages this morning from young guys that are saying, hey, I'm still King James preferred. I'm just now looking into this. Do you have any kind of books for me to read, anything to look at? And we're able to send them episodes like this. You already mentioned James White's book. But the cards start to fall when you start to look at the position. It's indefensible. So that Ankerberg show was really good. That probably got me too. I've had Sam get – he signed my Bible. But when I watched him try to defend himself there, it was just kind of embarrassing. Well, we are actually – we're doing something different with this episode. We're sort of playing back and forth. So the guys have just asked us a question. So we're going to do the same thing. So this is not technically hijacking your podcast. John, they asked us three questions. I don't know if that's fair or not, but they asked us three questions. Yeah, it's just three questions. So we're not technically hijacking. We're just going to give a little bit of – Yeah, we're going to play back and forth. Yeah, back and forth. So, James, go ahead and ask these guys a question. Yeah. So, Tyler, Chance, and Austin, what is the goal or even the meaning of your podcast, the Starving for Truth podcast? What is y'all's end goal? What are y'all wanting to see happen with what you guys have going on right now? Yeah, so the audience we're trying to reach are those that have either grown up in an IFB movement or churches where theology wasn't strong. And as a result of us growing up in the IFB movement, which I'm sure you guys can relate to this, we weren't given sound theology. We were literally starving for truth. And our desire is to reach guys and ladies that are looking for answers, somewhere to go to where they can find biblical truth. If you look at our logo, it's a starving sheep. And we just believe there's a lot of starving sheep in churches all over that are looking for truth. Yeah, and I think it doesn't just involve the IFB movement. There's people in the Southern Baptist Convention that are starving for truth. And so we thought at the beginning it was just going to be a tool for our local church. And then we started getting messages from the broader church. And then each week we have tons of guys. And hopefully, this is a plug for the new podcast that's going to come out, but hopefully our wives are starting a podcast. There's going to be some more ministering to the souls of the ladies as well. And so our goal really is to equip the saints for the working in the ministry via a podcast. And then also, this has really helped us out in pastoral care as well. Because if you have an hour of your life to give to somebody, obviously you're going to give it. But when you're busy and you're doing certain things, you can say, hey, here's a podcast we recorded. And this addresses the subject that you're asking about. Listen to that first, and then let's set up a counseling session. And then let's go through what you're struggling with. And that's been a great tool. So I guess our heart behind this is to point people to the truth of Scripture, the truth of Christ. The gospel is our foundation. We are fundamentalists. I mean, we love the Scripture. We love old-time religion that's actually from the Apostle Paul. And so that's our heart behind it. And Tyler, I'll pass the baton. Yeah, I mean, my story probably is similar to yours, James, in that I slowly started, these things started shedding. But when the first thing, like the KJVO position, when I looked at it and I realized that I've been wrong, and I'm hearing these really good preachers that are focused on the true fundamentals, the true things that are very important, the deity of Christ, justification by grace through faith, it just put a hunger in my heart to learn more once that first step was taken. And so that's, you know, we're starving for truth once we break free from that. And even just any Christian should be starving for the truth of God's Word. And we just want to help equip in that area. Because, you know, in my past, there was, I think I said this on the Recovering Fundamental podcast, but in my past, there were question marks in my childhood over my head all the time. And you'd get differing answers in the IFB, almost like it's a hodgepodge of different philosophies, different thinkings, and you wouldn't get a straight answer on everything. Or you get one answer from one guy, a different answer from another guy. But once I started digging into God's Word and realizing that there's Christians for a long time that have believed certain truths about God's Word, and I have historical, accurate, biblical beliefs concerning doctrine and all those things, it just set a fire in my heart to learn more. And that's kind of my background with that. I'll just add one more thing here. You know, people that are starving, that are super hungry, they're hungry and they'll take anything. And I think that's one thing we want our podcast to be. We want it to be truth that we're feeding these people that are hungry. You have the Preacher's Boy podcast, which is filling this void, but what is he giving them? And so we want our podcast to be biblical truth that will help people. Yeah, and I think a good analogy is like, probably everybody's heard of NF. And when he does a rap song, he's always giving the problem, but he's not giving the solution. Yeah. It's the same thing with the Preacher's Boy podcast. Like, if people abuse people, they deserve justice. We agree. Hear, hear. Yeah. But there has to be a solution of that void that's in the heart of the individual, and that's the gospel. Yeah. And so that's our foundation. And so we want to start there, and then we want to build upon the solid foundation of Christ. And we want to lay a foundation for the listeners to have truth that they can stand on, truth they can depend on. Yeah, absolutely. James, I sort of think that they answered, Austin at least, answered the second question, which was, are people starving for truth? Yeah, they don't listen to show notes, John. They're just a bunch of liberals that don't follow the show notes for a podcast. You know, we don't do show notes for our podcast, John. Tell Rick Warren high for us, James. And then they say, hey, put some show notes together, and that's what we're going to offer. And then they don't even care about it. Yeah, we shoot from the hip normally. I mean, we don't have beards. I don't even know why we're even... If you think James sounds salty, it's just because he's in North Carolina by himself, and all of us have been hanging out all day. They line up a meeting time. They don't even tell me. They're hanging out, and I don't even get to be there. We could have FaceTimed you in, man. Yeah. Your digital presence is here, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, yeah, and I think going to... I don't know if we need to edit this out, but I was going to say he looks more like the pride flag right now. Oh, yeah. Well... No, we don't need to edit that out. It is. I don't have a video. I'll just see these guys. Because what we see is just, we don't see James' face. We just see colors. You're saying the reason he's so salty is because he's kind of gay? He's like, I'm just playing. But... All right, back to number two. Are people starving for truth? Yes. And you said, why do you think they're starving? Well, I think it's because, and we can be honest here, I don't think the Bible is being exposited in a lot of churches. Yeah, and we're going to be doing a review of Jack Kyle's sermon, Keep Your Feet Out of My Steak. Keep your stinking feet. Keep your stinking feet out of my drinking water. And so, like, some things, like, Jack Kyle's was a gifted communicator. He could rally the crowd. He could rally the troops. But he did not deliver the truth. And so, I think a lot of times there are great gifted communicators in the fundamentalist movement that can rally the crowd, rally the troops, boast the egos of the listeners. But what they're doing is they're fleecing the flock. And so, we don't want to fleece the flock. We want to feed the flock. And when it comes to those who are starving for truth, there are people that reach out each week that have questions, you know, that ask these deep theological questions that they've had all their life. And then they go to their pastor, and their pastor says, well, just trust me, or trust my voice, or trust what I believe. And so, instead of giving them an answer that they can depend upon, they give them some philosophy, or they give them something that they've just regurgitated from all the preacher's conferences they've been to. So, yeah, there are people starving for truth. I mean, it's all the time we get messages, and we really like to interact with those who are struggling. Yep. All right, is it back to us? You know, one thing to add on that, I met yesterday with a pastor that goes to our church. He's 81 years old. He was in ministry for 61 years, and I've just befriended him over the last couple of months, and gleaning from him, he just retired, joined our church. He grew up in our church. And I met with him just praying and seeking advice and counsel with him. And he made this statement. He said, I'm so fearful of today's church. And he said, I don't understand why so many people are— and he used the word compromising or going liberal. And I know what he meant. He wasn't meaning what we would think or what people would classify us as liberal and going crazy. But I made this statement. I said, Henry is his name. I said, Henry, I really believe it's because we've gotten away from preaching and teaching the truth of the Bible. And he said, you're absolutely right. He said, we have—as an 81-year-old man, he said, church has become something that they check off as a box that I went on Sunday, and I'm good for the week. And it has not been any other effect in their life. And he said, I fully believe that's why the church and Christians as a whole are not influencing their community because they're not getting truth. on a daily basis in their own personal life. And to hear that from an 81-year-old man who loves Jesus, who sacrificed his entire life serving the church, and he said, I'm at the point now where I don't really care much about me. I care about my kids, my grandkids, and my great-grandkids. And I fear for the church that they're going to grow up in. Yeah. That's a solid point, especially coming from an older gentleman in the faith. Yeah. Last night, Austin, to commend you, my wife, she's—she's got a new ESV Bible. She's been taking notes. She's going through a booklet for devotions. And she says, like, right now, she's never had this before where she's—she's been hungry before, but she hasn't been fed. And it's not, of course, not always the fault of the preacher and all that stuff, but now she's personally been digging into God's Word, getting into it, understanding it. And it's just been such a—and she's like, I just really loved Austin's message last night. That passage was so great. And it's just—and this is where I'm convicted is, like, last night I could have been—might have been looking around the auditorium a little bit, might not have been paying attention as much. But she's just looking at her Bible and being like, this Bible is amazing. I can read it. I can digest it. I can understand it. And it's just been awesome to hear that. But there's a lot of people that they have that hunger, but it's not being satisfied in their church. It's not being cultivated. Right. They're not looking at their Word and being fed. They're looking at a man and hearing his stories, hearing his opinions, and they're not—there's something there that's not happening for them. Yeah. What's happening is they're getting junk food all the time. Right. You know, they get lazy. When you eat junk food all the time, what happens? You get lazy and fat, right? So I think the American church is there. And I think the cure for that is expositional preaching. Yeah. Elder-ran churches that has a plurality and not a CEO model. Yeah. And so I think our motto is to a thousand generations. That's our church's motto. And so as Baptists, we see like the now and what's going to happen tomorrow. But as we cultivate the church in the States and as we cultivate our local churches, it should be something that we see as generational. Yeah. When I'm dead, is my church going to still be there? And is there going to be equipped men to fill that pulpit or fill the void of a Christian school or fill the void of whatever it is, whatever ministry that you can say, biblical counseling? And so I think a lot of times we've got the Great Commission and we go and we preach the gospel, but we forgot the disciple. And I think that's where we're at in the American church. Yeah. That's good. All right. Are we back to us? Are we asking you guys another question? All right. Do we need more Christian podcasts? We'll do that one right now. Do we need more Christian podcasts? John, go ahead. Okay. So do we need more Christian podcasts? First of all, I'd say this, that you understand the times. We are to be discerning of the times. I did some history research when I was starting the podcast on the fundamentalist movement. And if you go back to the 20s, you find that the medium of that day that they got messages out, they spoke into the world, was through periodicals. So what is known in fundamentalist circles is the sword of the Lord. The sword of the Lord was actually, at its time, the medium for their day. And you look at J. Frank Norris, he reached a lot of people and it became wide. They didn't have the YouTube or the Facebook social media that spread. It was through that periodicals. You move a little bit down the line in history and the medium then becomes radio, right? Radio preachers became a huge thing. Well, is that really the case? I think now, I think really podcasts is one of the mediums to speak into today for the church. And the question, do we need more Christian podcasts? Well, I would ask someone if they were saying that in sort of a critical manner, I'd say, well, do we need more entertainment podcasts? Do we need more? I mean, if you looked at the ratio of Christian podcasts, and maybe we should even define Christian and what is speaking actual biblical truth out there, I think there's actually a vast, using the word starvation, of real good Christian podcasts. So, yes, very much so. Yeah. So, what about you, James? James. Yeah, I agree with what John said. There is a life of the public square. I like how Michael Knowles says that. What is the public square right now? And if we don't have a voice in the public square, then we aren't making an influence properly in our community. As me and Austin came back from Israel just a couple of months ago, I often think and try to remember the places where people gathered in those amphitheaters and hippodromes, and there were large entertainment venues where everyone would go to get the news and events and what was going on. We don't have places like that now because our era has changed, and we're in technology and social media. And so if we are going to be good stewards of what God has given us, and he has given us in an age of social media, and he's given us an age of internet and accessibility to people, why would we not use that as a tool to reach people for the sake of the gospel? And if I simply have a podcast where we share the gospel, and one person listens to it, and one person's life has changed, then absolutely, I would say, make a hundred more of them, just so that we can see more and more people's lives change for the sake of the gospel. And let me add on to the last part of that is one of the – I'm going to say problems. One of the problems in our culture right now is a very soundbite culture. We have a very soundbite culture, and if you look at all the public square avenues that James is talking about, whether it's TikTok, I know there's a lot of people trying to have good voices in that, but it's so minute, and we need areas where things can be more fleshed out because of we just want 30 seconds, 10 seconds, 15 seconds. That's just not enough time. That's not how God gave us truth to be compacted that much, and podcasts are an avenue where those things can be fleshed out. Yeah, and like the past four hours hanging out with you, John, like what I've inferred is that you're a well-read guy. When you all talk about something on your podcast, you've probably read a couple books about it before you talk about it. And what we can do is that we can have another avenue where the pastors of a church can study something, get it to their people, and feed their congregation. I don't know about you, James. I haven't hung out with you. All I know about you is that I see like a rainbow thing on your screen. But I assume that it's the same way with you where you have an opportunity to minister to people. And it's just another one of those tools that God's given us where we can study something and get it to our people. Yeah, and I think the great thing about podcasts too is sometimes we don't have enough time to read the 10 books on something in the counseling world. And then you bring it up on a podcast and like we can pick up that podcast for an hour and you've digested it and then you explain it. And so podcast is a great way to transfer information. And I think a lot of times we are like, I don't know, I get stuck on the reels or whatever, the Facebook thing sometimes at night. And I'm like seeing all these things and basically it's Kobe Bryant and then boxing videos for me. But unless Tyler sends me videos, then my algorithm is really messed up. So podcasting has helped me out a lot or YouTube. I've watched a lot of James White's debates. And so I would say the modern day marketplace is social media. And we need to be in there. Paul would be here. Well, and even at that point, the number one podcast in, I don't know if it's number one overall, but your long-form journalism of the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Right now the number one trending documentary on the internet is Shining High People. People are interested in this long-form drama, this long-form documentary. But they've also got this same edge of give me that 30 seconds. And so we've got to figure out this balance between the two. And we're in a very weird dilemma, a very weird culture right now of how can we gain people's attention for longer than 30 seconds in a way that's meaningful to impact them with what the truth is that we have. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So on that, let's move to our question, which is number three. Where should people be finding the truth, fellas? Tyler, you haven't opened up one, so I'm going to throw you under the bus. Probably Rick Warren, honestly. Yeah. That's more Rick Warren. The unknown author of Hebrews. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. We figured it out. Right here. You heard it first. That was Chance. Chance said that. Yeah. Shout out, JC. I mean, I think this is one of those kindergarten questions. Jesus. No, the Bible. And this is – and that's where you can begin to shed man, where they have put their pharisaical rules, where they hold those in higher esteem than the scriptures. And, no, you need to get back to the scriptures. Get back to the Bible. And, of course, what's important, if you're in a solid church, being under the leadership of your elders, your pastors, and seeking counsel, seeking good counsel. And, of course, all by the power of the Holy Spirit. Because you can read your Bible, and it's not getting you anywhere. And there's not that hunger. There's not that thirst there. Because you need a change of heart, of course, or you need a revival of your heart. But seeking the truth, of course, from the scriptures and being under authority is always ideal. Yeah, and people need solid biblical truth. You know, growing up in the IFB and going off to college, we can ask, you know, why do we believe that? And oftentimes we're given the answer, well, because so-and-so told me, or my grandma, or other grandma are sweet ladies. But we need a point of truth where we can say, this is where we are pointing you to, and it's the Word. The Word is where we get our truth from. It's not just because so-and-so said it, or it's written in a book that someone wrote. But where in the Bible does it say this? And that has to be our foundation. Yeah, and I think a lot of times, like, a lot of our listeners are in fundamentalist churches. And not all fundamentalist churches are bad. But if you look at the scripture, and we say this is where authority comes from, I'm going to read 1 Timothy 3, 1 through 7. And if the pastor that is in your church does not fit these qualifications as an elder, you probably should look for a different church, or at least have the church admonish him and have him in repentance. And so there are many wolves that will gain the platform of the pulpit. And, you know, we should submit to the leadership. But if the leadership's tyrannical, if the leadership's false, they're teaching a false gospel, you don't have to submit to that. You actually should probably fight against that in a gentle way. You know, you don't come in and just, like, burn down the church. But in 1 Timothy 3 it says this, The saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of an overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife. And so when you get into the tax above reproach, he doesn't have scandals out in the community. People don't think, when I see him, is he going to rob us blind, or is he going to have an affair? Or, you know, there's just basic qualifications. And if that is what your pastor is known for, find another pastor, you know. And so you don't have to submit to the tyrannical leadership that runs some small churches. And so, you know, husband of one wife, you know, there's been a covenant of marriage there that's been honored, sober-minded, his mind's not in the gutter all the time, or he's not tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. Self-control, this is a big one. So if your pastor is 600 pounds, he lacks self-control, and therefore he's disqualified in the ministry. You know, so there's these qualifications. This is where our truth comes from. Respectable. People have respect for him or some sort of, and I'm not saying like a holy reverence, but a reverence for this guy. When he walks into the room, there's respecting people. Then you have hospitable. His house is open to you, or he's taking you out, or you're visiting with him. There is all these things, able to teach. If he can't get up and he, what did Jared Baker say that one time? He can preach out of a wet paper bag. You know, he can't preach out of a wet paper bag. Then he's not qualified. Right. And so, I would say all the qualifications of an overseer or an elder are all character traits. And so, not a drunkard, so not drinking all the time and getting drunk. It doesn't mean if he has a beer, he's in sin. But what it's saying is he's not indulging in drinking or giving over to drunkenness. Not violent. That doesn't mean he can't go boxing or have jiu-jitsu classes. It doesn't mean he's beating up his neighbor. But gentle and not quarrelsome, not always looking for a fight, not a lover of money. And so, he manages his household well, so he's going to lead and disciple his wife. If his wife is rolling the house, he's disqualified. You know, so there's all this truth that stems from this. And when we're finding truth, we should sit under pastoral leadership, eldership, that looks like this. If it doesn't look like this, they're unqualified for the ministry. And you should, one, encourage them to repent. And if that doesn't work, you should find another church. And so, that's how it's always been. That's how God established it. And so, we don't need to change the book so we can have somebody we like behind the pulpit. Right. And I even think of Jesus' prayer in the garden in John 17. He says, you know, the Bible word here, sanctify. Yeah. Theological term. But if we break it down, it's the process that God changes us. Yeah. And he said, how did he pray, Jesus praying to God, change them in your truth? Yeah. Yeah. And then he doesn't leave us hanging. We're asking you the question, where do people find the truth? He defines it for us. Yeah. Your word is truth. Yeah. Yeah. It's not hard to figure out. Yeah. And I think that, like you were saying, a lot of times, over time, it's been real easy to regurgitate what some other figurehead has said at a conference to come back and just give that to the people. Yeah. You write down their four points of their sermon, and then you just let her rip. And then you go, and you go to another conference, and you gather 20 sermons there. Right. Yeah. And that's not healthy for the church. Right. And you look in church history, how the word was hidden from the common people for so long. And it was just the priest or the pope that spoke for God. Yeah. But we have the word. We have the truth. Not to get back on the King James only conversation. But it was hidden because they made sure they couldn't understand it. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which, if you come back to fundamentalism, can they understand the King James? And if you tell them they must stay there, you're, in a sense, doing the same thing. I've thought that. Yeah. Well, and being in the educational system, running a boy's home, and seeing the state. Like, so, I would say, I don't know what the percentage is, but a high percentage goes to the public school. And the public school is failing the students. And so, reading levels, reading comprehension, they're not going to, like, when you open up a King James, you look at it, and you're like, hmm. If you have the reading comprehension of what's coming out of our modern-day public school, you're not going to comprehend it. And even me, when I read the King James, and I've grown up on it, I've been weaned on it. And there's things I come across, like, even Mark Ward the other day talking about one of the false friends. Yeah. There's things like that that it's like, oh, I've been understanding that incorrectly my whole life. Yeah. Or as if I just opened up another version of there. It just has it. Yeah. And we should study it if that's what you use. And you're like, well, I'm still going to stick with my KJV. That's great. But you should definitely watch those videos on false friends. You should definitely learn how to read it and how to give it to your people in a digestible way. Yeah. Yeah. The hardcore King, because I was one, hardcore King James only hates the objection that it's hard to understand. There has been nobody better at proving that than Mark Ward has. Yeah. I've actually been really watching his YouTube videos. That's a wealth of knowledge. I think the preachers actually prove it better. I honestly don't know where we're at. You guys just asked us. We're back to asking you. Chance, you want to? You're number three. You're number three. You're number three. You're number three. You're number three. You're number three. You're number three. Thanks for listening to the For Freedom podcast. 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