215. A Talk with Father Kelly on Magdala

For freedom, he set me free, not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace, cigars and victory justified, released. Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. I ain't saved by dress codes, not by what I eat. I'm covered in the righteousness, washed from head to feet. No tally of tradition, no man-made code. Blood bought my freedom, now I ride that road. They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise. But my praise still ascends past the legalist cries. Christ plus nothing, that's the real math. So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path. He sat with sinners, I'm sitting with saints. Sipping grace from the bottle, no room for fakes. I light one for liberty, toast to the king. Every ash a sermon, death has lost its sting. For freedom, he set me free, not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. For freedom, he set me free, not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. Let grace begin. For freedom, he set me free, not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Now here are your hosts, James Seyfried and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the podcast. We are so excited to have Father Eamon Kelly here with us. And he is in Magdala in Israel. And me and Brett, we got to meet him. And we were so excited about lining up this interview to be able to share his story and what he's doing there in Israel. And how it can be an encouragement to you. Welcome to the show, Father Kelly. Will you share your background, your calling into the priesthood? And what led you to serve in the Holy Land? Give us the intro to that. Thank you so much, James, for having me on the show with you guys. And Brett, I missed part of it. I was taking up my head to see you out there touring. No worries. Yeah. Well, I was raised on a farm in the west of Ireland. I was milking cows and shearing sheep and castrating calves. You can cut that piece out if you need to. And I was delighted to be there. We were we didn't have electricity and we didn't have a telephone. And that wasn't by choice as much as by the fortune of where we were. And in a way, we didn't miss it. It was interesting. When we needed to get a vet for a cow or something, they gave me a six penny piece and I ride my bicycle for three and a half, almost four miles to the Noughtons to make a phone call from there. And she dialed on the phone. And then the post office answered and then connect me to the number in Canberra for the vet. An hour or two hours later, the vet showed up. And so that was that was the life in the farm, making butter at home. And then I was blessed to be raised and to be born into a family that practiced the faith, practiced in the sense of believing and also believing in God and praying in the family. And we didn't miss church on Sunday unless there was somebody really sick. We cycled three and a half miles to church when we were little and we had to school also. So I was held back for a year until I was able to, until my little sister, my next sister was, she was five and a half. I was six and a half and we cycled three and a half miles to school. So that in itself, through the nature and the rain and the wind, we didn't have much snow. So the second year we were in school, there was a huge freeze over. And I remember we had to break ice on a little small little seasonal lake we had in order for the cows to get water. And it was that kind of life on the farm. So we didn't go to school that month when there was that total freeze over. And that was unusual. And all the memories of the neighbors, the nearest neighbors were almost a mile away. So I mean, daddy never said, be quiet, the neighbors will hear you. It was countryside. And we didn't have a tractor or a car. We had a donkey, an old horse that was kind of lazy. And there in the countryside growing up and we were blessed with a larger size farm, lots of cows and calves and sheep and lambs and a little bit of tillage. The land was very rocky. A little bit like what you see in the back of the picture here in Mount Arbel. It's a limestone formation. That's what we had. We were living more on the flatland with limestone. And we did have hills behind us, more or less the size of Mount Arbel. And so we it was just a marvelous way to to begin growing up and then went to school, grade school, high school. In high school, it was quite demanding. And I wanted to quit after three years in high school to be a farmer. And that's a whole other story. We could talk about that at length. But they, of course, instead of circumstances that would need more time to recount, I decided to go back to high school instead of staying at home working with my dad on the farm. I would inherit the farm and I wouldn't be here talking to you now. And then so I went to finish high school. And in the course of that, I really got fell in love with physics. And sciences and math. And that was my big, big hobby. I still helped out a lot on the farm, but there was a lot of schoolwork to do. We my sister and I were in the same class since we had started out that early together. And she's now a doctor. And so she was also very academically motivated. And that was an environment then of great mutual stimulation. And so the environment was also healthy in our time. You know, we had a three day retreat in the school and there was a visiting priest came to do the retreat. And some of the bad boys were out in the shed and they smoked a cigarette in the bicycle shed. But most everybody of 240 boys kept silence in the school. It was amazing. You know, it wasn't forced. It was it was enforced in a way, but it wasn't it wasn't pressurized. It was people wanted also that we were motivated to pray. And at least a lot of the people, I think. And then priest showed up in the school once. And I still remember that it was September 1973. And was our beginning of our last year of high school. And he was from Mexico. And he spoke about a personal, passionate love for Jesus. He spoke about winning the word for Christ. And he spoke about studies to be able to speak to a world that didn't want to hear about God. But it was very agnostic, materialistic. Atheism was very strong in the Western world at that time. And I just thought, wow, I wanted to study physics. Maybe this is the way to get into a top physics university. And I just put down, send me more information. But it's funny when years later, I was telling the story to two of my sisters. My next two sisters that I have brought in and a little sister. There were five of us. And my second sister piped up and she said, I remember that evening very much. And you never stopped talking about this Mexican priest. You were turned on. So somehow the Lord had hooked me, you know, for this vocation to leave everything. And follow Christ with no other expectation than Christ himself, which is the greatest expectation. And then the year went by, the academic studies. And there's a lot of other little pieces to tell the story there. We'll skip over that for now. And so then the summer came around. I finished the exams. We did a second set of exams, some of us, for a better ranking to get into universities. And I had a place for the university to study physics and everything. But my decision was made. I was going to be a priest. And so I joined the novitiate in Dublin, two years of, a little bit like Paul, going into Arabia after his conversion to soak up the great gift he had received, the grace he had received, to do that complete reorientation of his mind from persecuting Christians to be such a great apostle for Jesus. After two years, we make our vows poverty, not to own anything, chastity, to dedicate our heart consecrated completely to the love of Christ in his church. And then obedience, which is the toughest one, because that's concerning our will, to lay down our will to do whatever the church wants me to do, whatever position, whatever ministry I've been required to do. And then to follow Christ who was obedient unto death for our salvation. And so that's the logic of that and living in a community. And so that those two years were about getting into that new mentality. And then following that, I was studied a year in Salamanca in Spain, humanities, especially Latin and Greek, which I already had Latin in high school. And then classical Greek, and then also rhetoric and writing for this, preparing the mind and the abilities, the talents for ministry. And then also learning Italian to be ready to go to study in Rome. And there I did a degree in philosophy. And then I was sent to Michigan. And I was in youth ministry in Michigan and teaching religion in a high school, freshmen, sophomores, and feeder schools, and also doing programs for the younger kids, junior high kids. And then I was four years in that. It was supposed to be three originally, but the circumstance made it four. And then I was asked to do another job to look for some funds for the seminaries and for the work we were doing with the Maya Indians in southern Mexico. And so I was an extra year there. So I had five years down in the States. Then I was sent back to, that was all over the country. Then I went to Rome to do my theology. And I was ordained a priest in 1987. So that's 38 years ago. That's Christmas. Wow. So now I'm 52 years in the congregation, in the community, living my life for Christ. Never got a paycheck from me. We live a shared life where everybody has everything in common. And it's a great way. Even this shirt, nobody is going to use it. But I don't own it. So it's for my use, for my ministry. And the only thing I own is actually a cross, a crucifix. To remember what Jesus did, the love he had for me. That's the only possession I have on this earth. I have a lot of books and nobody's going to use my underwear. But it's just, it's like, keep training the mind to be in love with Christ. So this is, first of all, my path. And then I was assigned after my ordination, actually, to the U.S. But there were some issues with the visa, getting it all processed. And I'm kind of a restless guy. So I ended up starting our work in Central Europe. And I was in Austria, Germany, Austria, and Hungary. And doing a lot of work all over that area region, Central Europe. It was when communism fell down, broke down. And so I was going from Amsterdam to Budapest in Hungary. And I even organized a group of kids from Moscow to Rome for a pilgrimage. And so it was an incredible time. Also in Europe, there was a whole new springtime of liberty. And also a huge challenge to spread the gospel. Because Europe has been very developed and also sometimes very far away from Jesus in certain aspects of the life and the culture. And then the next thing that happened was I was called back to the U.S. And then I was in New York. That was my base headquarters. And I used to hear confessions in the Twin Towers. So I knew a lot of people in 9-11. I was three days on the streets with people in New York and Manhattan. It was an incredible, it was an amazing experience. You know, you have such diversity in a place like Manhattan. So many extreme, so many different types of populations. And that, those days, you could say that everybody was a brother of everybody else and a sister of everybody else. It was just like a leveling moment. You know, you have Shakespeare. Was it Shakespeare who wrote the sonnet about death? The leveler? Maybe it wasn't Shakespeare, who was it? I mean, that one in high school. And that event of 9-11 was a leveler. Everybody was in the same boat. And it was an amazing, we could do a podcast just about that. And then the next thing that happened, I was assigned to youth work in the Ohio Valley through adult ministry for youth work. And I was chaplain at Northern Kentucky University. And my boss was a Baptist pastor. Why? Because he was the long-standing pastor there. And I was new. And there were about six or eight different types of pastors there. And so he was the coordinator of our team, also in relation to getting interest pushed with the administration of the university and so on. And then I was called to come here to the Holy Land in 2006. And I probably got the assignment 20 years ago in May. And the Hezbollah War broke out in July. So they said, don't come. There's nothing to do. There are no pilgrims. Stay there. Do something useful. And then I got assigned to a parish in Phoenix, just outside of Phoenix, in Queen Creek. So I told people I was up the creek with many paddles. And I was there until January. And I got here in January 2007. And the Phoenix experience was a marvelous experience because I had never done parish ministry. And I work, obviously, with a lot of priests who come here for renewal, for retreat. And it's good to have that experience. And also the experience of living in the desert, the saguaro cactus out in Arizona, hiking in the desert numerously every week. It was just absolutely an amazing, delightful. It just opened up a whole other world that I wasn't familiar with. So then why was I called to the Holy Land? Because our community was entrusted with the major responsibility for a guest house in Jerusalem, which the Vatican had stepped in to fill a gap in administration. And they needed somebody to do this. Our community was assigned to that role as a third generation of responsibility for that. And then I was popped into that position. And they asked me to do it. And there I was in Jerusalem learning this 20 years ago, almost 19 years ago, this past January. And learning this whole milieu and getting familiar with it and being totally surprised. I'd often drink, you know, maybe sometime when I'd be 25 years or a day and I'd get to come here for a week to have a pilgrimage, you know. Well, I ended up being here already a number of years. That's when I got my 25th anniversary. So it's amazing how providence works in our lives. Just what Jesus said, you know. Peter said to him, we've given up everything for you. What do we get? And he said, a hundredfold in this life and eternal life and the life to come. And I can honestly say that I have experienced that goodness of God, that generosity of God, that absolute delightful company. And that doesn't mean that there were no problems or difficulties or even today challenges. The biggest challenges are sometimes inside our own selves, struggling, wrestling with things. And there can also be difficulties in the environment and even in the community, different issues that have to be dealt with that aren't easy. You'd prefer that doesn't exist, but that's part of where God is also molding us and shaping us and forming us in all of these challenges. So here I am talking to you today, talking to some Baptists. That's amazing. Isn't it Cassie Priest talking to Baptists? I love it. It's great. Yeah. Well, Father Kelly, I'll tell you, your presentation, your talk with our group was many people's favorite part of our trip. I know it was like right up there at the top of my list. We thank you for taking the time with us. My favorite, favorite part was whenever you got on to my wife for talking. I was like, I was like, I was like, yeah, get her brother, get her. And that was, I didn't understand what you're saying there. You got on to my wife for talking and I was like, yes, get her. You said, I'll start talking when you get done because what you're saying is more important than me. And I was like, yes, get her. She needs it. Yeah. I said with a small little bit of nuance, there was a little bit more finesse now the way you're reporting it, Brett. I hope no ladies are listening to that the way you said it. I always say that I love to hear the marvelous things the others are saying and I wouldn't like to miss them. So I won't be talking while they're speaking. But if they ever notice that I am not speaking, it's because people like your wife are very important things to say. And I wouldn't want to miss that for the world. Exactly. The gentle form of rebuking, reproving, and correcting. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was expressing my extreme appreciation and admiration for such incredibly profound thought that was so valuable to the whole group. Yes, yes, I love it. Well, amen. Well, let me ask you, what drew you to Magdala, to working on the Sea of Galilee? What does that mean to you? How has that journey evolved over the years? Thank you, Brash. By the way, when it's necessary, I can also give a public apology to your wife, even here on this program. Nah, not me. So we honor women here in Magdala in a very special way because of Magdala and Mary Magdala. So it's one of our priority program points that women here are treasured their front and center. And this is important because without a woman, we wouldn't be here. Without my mom, without my grandma, two grandmas. My dad's mother passed away when he was two years old, so I never knew her. But still, I owe her so much. And my dad doesn't remember anything because she died in the great flu of 1918, 1919. She was two years old. And so, you know, it's amazing what women have done in our lives. And then my three sisters, they're amazing, amazing, amazing people. And so it's a great gift. So we're very happy to put women front and center in Magdala. It's God put us here. And this is a great deal. Tell me your question again. I got off track. What drew you to Magdala and working on the Sea of Galilee? And how has that evolved over the years? Well, it was a bus that drew me, but not like a tractor and a trailer. I was sitting up on it. So I was 10 years working in Jerusalem, officially, the vice director of Notre Dame of Jerusalem Guest Center. Maybe some of your listeners have had a meal up on the rooftop restaurant. It's a view out over the city of Jerusalem. A magnificent place. It's a lot of history, a lot of wonderful service there. But the whole time, I was also working on this project together with Father Juan Solana, who was spearheading it. And then at some point, I will tell you the exact story. I often did a lot of trips, especially to the U.S., to rouse awareness and support for Magdala. And at one point, about 10 years ago, there was this consultant who came by and he said, you know, you guys, I'm watching what you're doing, but I think, why are you going around the world to drive up support when you're already getting thousands here every month and nobody's talking to them? So then I stopped flying around the U.S. and it was a time for a rethink how we're going to be here. So I started living here because of that, to take care of all the surge of pilgrims that were coming here to meet them, to encounter them, to guide them here, to be available for them when they come, to answer their questions, to give them encouragement, all the work with pilgrims as you go along. Love it. That was the main thing that brought me here, if that is helpful. So maybe the question also begs another question earlier, previous questions, why did we end up in Magdala as a community? And that question is connected to the, we were, first of all, our community was kind of, they twisted our arm to come to do this because it wasn't our line of service. We're very much into long-term accompaniment of people developing their talent to be great ambassadors of Christ in the world, wherever they are, in the workplace, at home, the family, in the community. And we figured that just being with people for a week in the pilgrimage and the Holy Land was just too short a time for doing continuous work. But then when we were kind of pressured into here and that great principle of obedience, you know, our church superior said, we need you to come and help. So our community said, yes. Then they sent me a letter and said, you come and help. Okay, I come and help. And then here, you know, through different voices, like even that consultant, that was a very important moment because he brought clarity to the discernment that we needed to make at this new moment of development. So when we got to Jerusalem first, it was just Notre Dame, but then it was very quickly to learn that Galilee was super important for pilgrims. And right now you're looking out at Galilee here behind me. This is Mount Arbel, and this over here is the Sea of Galilee. That blue there in the background, that's the Sea of Galilee. And actually Magla is right behind my head there. If you cut a hole through that stone, it would be Magla. And so we realized that we needed to be here because this is where Jesus spent his public life. This is Nazareth, it's only 20 minutes by car if there's no traffic from here. And that's where Jesus spent 30 years of his life. And that's where the Annunciation happened. The angel Gabriel comes and asks that little teenage girl, hey, do you want to be the mother of the Son of God? You know, a big deal. And then this is Canaan is here and Capernaum is here, the core of Jesus' life. So we realized very soon that we needed to come here. And then the concept of Notre Dame is very interesting because everybody goes to Notre Dame. And so all the Christian spectrum goes there. And it's a wonderful place. Historically, it's about 140 years old now. And then even Muslims and Jews go there and all the Christians. So then we figured maybe the concept we could do in Galilee was to develop a place that would be open to everybody and especially to all the Christians to stay here. And then when we started to develop Magla, we found a synagogue from the time of Jesus. So now we had something extraordinary treasure for the Jewish people. It turns out to be an extraordinary treasure for us Christians, those who follow Jesus, those who have a connection to Jesus. So this became then a kind of a bridge. And then all the workers here, it's amazing. It's like a cross-section of workers. We have Arab and Jewish Israelis working here. And the Arabs break down into Druze, which is a different religion than Islam. Muslim workers and Christian Arabs, who are Israeli citizens. And we have Jewish people working here and atheists and agnostics as well. And so there's a marvelous spirit here living together and working together. And that in itself is a wonderful testimony, this type of community that's living for a higher ideal. I love it. So why did we come here then? Well, because we had this idea to develop this center. Then the Lord blessed it with so many things that we could never have imagined. So it's clear that the Lord had this plan. At the end of the day, you say, why did I come to Magla? Well, because the Lord wanted it. But not because he sent me a WhatsApp message or a fax or an email. But just through the providential development and discernment of our service here, how we could best serve the pilgrims who come to know Jesus better, to walk in Jesus' footsteps, to be there where he taught. And this is why we follow these steps. And so in a certain sense, we didn't plan them. They're God's providence in our lives. Like what happens when a couple gets married and they didn't plan that the child will be this way or that way. You don't tell when the child is in the womb that's going to go to Harvard or MIT or become a carpenter. There's so much you wait for providence to unfold in your lives. It's like a little plant growing and then it flowers and then it bears fruit and more process of ripening. So in that sense, it's like life itself, you know. That's great. So Magdala, an ancient city, an ancient place. We know it's in scripture in two different locations in Matthew 15 and in Mark. I believe it's Mark 5, Mark 8 it is. And it's recorded in history. Josephus Flavius talks about Magdala. But for years, you know, we didn't know where it was at until just a couple of decades ago. So how do you explain the historical, the spiritual importance to someone who's never been here? How do you begin to say, listen, this is where Jesus was at. We know he came here. Mary Magdala's from here. He went to all the region and taught in the synagogues all across the region of Galilee. But people have never been there. And the vast majority of probably our listeners may never get a chance to go there. How do we talk about the importance of Magdala in that sense? Well, in a way, it's important. And in a way, it's like shooting myself in the foot. It's not that important. You say, how do you explain colors to a blind man? Like the difference between red and green and turquoise and yellow and gray. You know, what's the guy imagining? He can't even tell us what he's imagining because we don't know how he is interpreting those realities. So a blind man can still be a great saint, a great scholar, a great human being who does a lot of good because he's missing one little thing. So in one sense, I would just put things into perspective. The most important thing is that we learn to love God with all our heart and all our soul and all our strength and all our mind. And then if we're blessed with the grace of knowing Jesus, then to follow Jesus, to love him. And we can do that anywhere, every time, every day, everywhere, with every person. And this is really the core stuff. So then to come to the Holy Land has great value. I think Americans could relate to going to the Super Bowl or to the Hall of Fame for football would even be better. And then you go through all the history or you go to the home of Abraham Lincoln. Or George Washington or Martin Luther King or, you know, you say, wow. And you ponder their life and they have great significance for the history of the U.S. But then you come to and going to the place where Jesus was walking around. Where he called the first disciples, where Mary Magdalene had a lot of issues, you know, seven demons is a big, big, big topic. And she's delivered and she becomes the first witness of the resurrection. And this is the reason why we emphasize Magdalene so much in the women's part of Magdalene. She is related here. The first witness of Jesus risen from the dead. And he sent her to go to the other apostles. And the word to send in Greek is apostolane. And somebody who is sent an emissary, an ambassador, is called apostolos in masculine and apostola in feminine. So Jesus sends her the breaking news. Have you ever heard of breaking news that morning? That was the ultimate breaking news for humanity. There was no breaking news ever like that, that he rose from the dead. Maybe the other one that would match it would be Pentecost. Maybe also the angel Gabriel telling Mary she's going to be the son. But the mother, her son is going to be the eternal word of God, the son of God. You know, that's breaking news. This is the center of history, man. So then you come here and, okay, you get excited as Americans maybe going to something historical, the Statue of Liberty or those places that were so meaningful for so many families arriving from poverty to the shores of America. And they get checked in, it's in Long Island, some big office place there for immigrants. And so the great-grandchildren go back and check it out. But to come here and say, wow, 2,000 years ago, you know that today, we're now 26. So in seven years, we'll be celebrating the second millennium of Jesus' work of salvation. And, you know, 2,000 years, I remember this morning I was sharing with a group here about a coin we have near the Magdalene Stone. Maybe I did that for you guys. And the coin was minted in the year 29. And you asked them who was alive in the year 29. And the coin is written Tiberias. Tiberias. Tiberias is four miles from here, just south of us. And then the other part on the other side of the coin is written Herod the Tetrarch. So Tiberias of Herod the Tetrarch. And who was alive at that time? And you're here for all of that, John the Baptist, and he clips off his head, you know. You're here where all this story unfolds. You're here where Jesus calls all of his disciples, where he's walking across Galilee, crisscrossing Galilee the whole time. And, you know, the teachings are very important in the gospel, all the words. But actually, you have to also ponder what's going on while he's teaching. No, sorry, while he's walking. And there's one story that I love to tell. Did you see the mosaic map we have here with 1.6 million stones? It's a big circle just between the Dukan Altum and the restaurant we're building. And maybe you didn't get to see it because there's so much to see. And if you have an hour, you don't get to see it all. But, well, in this map, we also have it extended beyond Galilee up to Tyre and Sidon in Lebanon. And we have it extended to pointing towards Jerusalem, to the Golanitis, which is the Golan today, to Decapolis, which is down as far as Philadelphia. It doesn't do it all, just a piece of it. And it says in the gospel that Jesus, remember the time the lady with the crumbs under the table, her daughter, she wanted healed or liberated? And it says in three or four words, Jesus went from there and his next moment is in the Decapolis. And he has to cross all across Lebanon, all across Galilee, down into the Decapolis. Who knows how far down? And there's nothing more to say about that. But what happened in that trip in terms of contacts between the disciples, fights they had, tensions they had, and just watching Jesus the way he was keeping his calm. And then they were being transformed. It's like kids, you know, on a trip, three-day trip across America with the kids and they're fighting in the back of the car. And when are we going to get there? That whole, that whole is, that's formational for the kids. They have to learn patience. They have to learn to survive in moments that are uncomfortable. They would like to get out of the car. No, we just have to keep driving for another three hours. You know, it's the practical daily life. And to come here and to realize this is where all this happened. The disciples get up in the morning, they can't find Jesus. They're out in the hills looking for him because they realize that he looks for a lonely place to pray. And now they're out there and we're walking those places here. You know, you're touching it. You're seeing it. Not much changed here in the topography since Jesus' time. This mountain didn't change much. Maybe there was a bit more eroded with the rains and the storms. But it's basically the same mountain Jesus saw. What you're looking at right behind my head there. The Sea of Galilee didn't move. The Mount of Olives didn't move in Jerusalem. So it's a big deal. Yeah. In the excavation in Magdala, the First Century Synagogue that's there where the Magdala Stone is at and the Magdala Stone. I think that's important as well. How did those two things shape the site and shape the importance of this region? You had told a story while we were there about, I think it was some philosopher that said, you know, there were no synagogues. There was no such thing as a synagogue. And then now we have 12 of them. So share that a little bit. And then Brett's going to transition to another talk about Mary Magdalene a little bit. Sure. So the discovery of the synagogue was very important because we actually, in that place, had planned a chapel where we could be shared by all Christians. You know, the goodwill attitude so any Christian group could come and have a place to pray, open hospitality there for chapel hospitality, right? And that's where we found the synagogue. So let's say we have goodwill and we're listening to Jesus' prayer at the Last Supper. May they all be one father as you and I are one so the world will believe. That's wonderful. And it's a fantastic motivation. It's Jesus' living word that's pushing us today. But then we come and we find a synagogue from the time of Jesus. And a lot of guides say that Jesus was in the synagogue. I never say that because we lost all the videos. But then the probability is huge. Jesus walks through this area. He teaches in the synagogues and every Shabbat. We found a second synagogue 163, 170 yards away from this synagogue. So we have two synagogues which are contemporary from the first century before temple destruction in Galilee. So until the 1990s, as you were mentioning, James, there was a theory by a bunch of professors that there were no such things as synagogues until after temple destruction. Now, if there are no synagogues until after temple destruction, that raises a huge credibility question about the gospel because the gospel claims that Jesus taught in synagogues every Shabbat, every Saturday. And heal the sick there. And then by the time we found ours, ours was number seven. And now there are 12, at least, which are recognized by the Israeli Antiquities Authority as synagogues and their pre-temple destruction. They're first century synagogues. And so this is a pretty significant discovery because when you see these kind of facts, you can't argue against it. So the synagogues did exist. And then another thing is our synagogue is very beautiful. By the way, when is the first time in your life, James, that you ever heard a Catholic priest saying our synagogue? Never. Think about it. And now if you meet some Jewish folks on the street there in North Carolina and you get talking, you may have a coffee together or something, a nice conversation. And then you say, oh, by the way, I was in Galilee recently. Oh, by the way, hey, Mr. Jewish person, have you seen our synagogue? You know, this changes the conversation. And the Jewish guy looks at you and says, what do you mean? You're a Baptist, you're a Christian. What's going on here? And it starts the whole conversation about shared spaces. There's no question about that. Our synagogue is one of the greatest treasures that has been uncovered recently of Jewish culture, Jewish history. But on the other hand, it's also a treasure for us because Jesus spoke and healed the sick in the synagogues of Galilee. That's extraordinary. And to be able to witness that, to be there, just look in the seats there, to think you're sitting down in this synagogue and your family is there with you. And maybe Jesus just came into the synagogue and there he is teaching. And then little by little, he's engaging all the people there, eye contact. And then the next moment you realize he's looking at your eyes and you're looking into Jesus' eyes for the first time in your life. And maybe you notice a question arising in your heart. And you know the question is coming from Jesus. And then the question simply is, what would you like me to do for you now? So the very fact of having a first century synagogue on site, which is very unusual. Did you guys stay here with us or did you just come to visit? We just came and visited. Yeah, but we have many Baptist groups staying here for two or three days. And then let's say they have a little insomnia because of jet lag or whatever. They take their Bible, they go down, they go down beside the synagogue and they open their Bible and pray a psalm right there where, you know, where people were there 2,000 years ago. So there's a gift in that. There's a gift that a lot of people are plagued in our culture by a type of skepticism, culture of doubt, questioning. And it's okay to question. And it's okay to have doubts. And you can be skeptical. But when you come here to the Holy Land, you say, wow, this Sea of Galilee, you put your finger in it, it gets wet. It's real. It's not plastic. It's not painted. It's for real. The volume of the Sea of Galilee, like the space it occupies, it's for real. Capernaum has archaeology for real. This synagogue is for real. There are houses. There are fish crossing infrastructure according to the theory of the archaeologists we've discovered. Ritual bats that we've discovered. This is a village. This is like almost a city. This is where real people came in and out doorways that are still there today, thresholds, colors painted on the wall. Somebody painted that mosaics in the floor in the synagogue. Somebody did that. So it becomes like you're in the living room of the people of 2,000 years ago, their community living room. That's their synagogue. That's where they're studying Torah. That's where Jesus went on Saturdays, on Shabbat, to teach the Word of God. To proclaim the kingdom is near. The kingdom is among us. It's here. It's already started. The king is here. So if the king is here, the king is here. Amen. One of the things that I really love about the Pilgrimage Center is its focus on women and the role of women in God's plan, in scripture, in the gospel. I'll tell you one more story about my wife. A good one this time. You brought her up to point the finger and take the picture by the woman who touched the hem of Jesus' garment and took that picture of her and prayed that prayer. And that meant a lot to her. This past Sunday morning, we had a reflection service for our people that went on the trip. And in her portion, she played that prayer that she prayed over her. And that meant a lot to her. And in fact, she wanted me to tell you this, that recently in the past few days, she had a medical procedure that she was very nervous about. And she prayed the prayer that you prayed. And it comforted her. And it meant a lot to her. And so we want to thank you for that. Which brings me to the next question. What role does the story, and you touched on this a little bit already, but what role does the story of Mary Magdalene play in the life and identity of this place? Well, I would say let's look at Mary Magdalene's scripture, first of all. And so you have lots of stuff in people's heads nowadays because of Dan Brown and all his writings and other people's theories about Mary Magdalene. But let's look at the scriptures. And I find that there are like five statements that we find in the Gospels about Mary Magdalene. First statement, she had a lot of issues. Just say it like that. A lot of difficult issues. You can, I'm just leaving the seven demons in whatever form they were active. If you're angry with somebody and you want to get revenge, are you going to sleep well at night if it's a very serious deal that you're angry about and want to do revenge for it? And so that's not a good spirit inside of you. This is just doing a minimal approach to this text, okay? And then all the other major issues that we can have of envy, of jealousy, of insecurity, of anxiety, of impatience. So many things that can plague us and make our family life a wreck, can wreck it, can wreck our work environment, can wreck our society, especially if people are in leadership and they have these issues. So Mary Magdalene had major issues, number one. Number two, she finds in Jesus the solution for her issues. They're resolved. She is freed, liberated. Number three, she is forever grateful. And this shows up that she is faithful even to Calvary when most of the guys are gone. Before this, she has been generously supporting Jesus' ministry. She's the top of the list of the supporters. And all these women are supporting Jesus. Luke chapter 8, verse 3. They're supporting Jesus from their treasure, from their substance, from their means, from their wealth. And after what we found in Magdalene, you can't say there wasn't wealth in Magdalene. And there's a lot more connections. If you look at the gospel in Luke chapter 8, verse 3, it says that Jesus is going around Galilee with the twelve and with the women who are freed, liberated, or healed. And among them, it says Mary Magdalene, Susanna and Johanna, and many others. Many others. That's a lot of women. And these women are supporting Jesus from their wealth. And one of the people is Johanna, and she's the wife of Chusa. And Chusa is the head manager of Herod Antipas. That means Herod is very busy with all the ladies he has to take care of and all the parties he has to run. So he has this guy, Chusa, in charge of all. He's like his prime minister. And this guy, his wife, is a disciple of Jesus. So Jesus is reaching the top level of society. But Mary Magdalene is always listed before her. So Mary Magdalene is a very significant leader in society, and she's giving everything she can to support Jesus' community. She's already being an apostle of the community. And then we go from there to the crucifixion, and she's faithfully there at the cross. And so it's no wonder, then, that Jesus calls her. It's still a wonder, but it's amazing that Jesus calls her to be the first witness. Providence has her a role as the first witness for the resurrection. And Jesus sends her, makes her an apostle to the apostles, to send his apostolary. And I mentioned this already already, to send her to be an apostle to the apostles. This is extraordinary. This is amazing. And so we can say these things about Mary Magdalene. She had major issues. She found in Jesus her solution. We could say in more pious language, her savior. But we just say her solution. Issues, I'm speaking secular language, just to make it accessible for everybody. She finds in Jesus the solution. She's forever grateful, and she shows that in the support for building up the community, because she knows this is going to bless so many people. And then she is faithful when the times get tough and the going gets rough. And she's faithful through Calvary. And she's still faithful after Calvary, because she's going to the tomb for the anointing. So, like, it's the worst of the worst. It's the dead end of the street, and she's still there. And then Jesus surprises her. And then sends her with the joy of the resurrection, the first hallelujah of Easter to the apostles. And they can't believe her. And it's just absolutely mind-boggling. It's just people have commented about the glass ceiling that women have to break through. That was it. That was the ultimate glass ceiling. And that has still, that still ricochets to this day. It still vibrates, resonates to this day. This is Mary Magdalene. And so, it's no wonder then that this is a great place. Since in our times, in the last century and quarter, century and a half, the issue of women has come very much to the fore. And that's very important. And sometimes it's been driven and written by ideologies that not necessarily are looking for the best of the woman, but they're using that to advance other causes. And the gospel message is truly liberating. In the encounter with Christ, Christ is the Lord, but he doesn't dominate people. He sets them free. He sends them out to change the world, to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. So, this is what Mary Magdalene experiences. And what a model, what a message, what an example. And what a delight. And very difficult in that time because the male dominance of the cultures of the time, in the Roman society, in the Greek society, in the Jewish society, Jesus was also breaking ceilings at that time. Glass ceilings and cement ceilings. Yeah, absolutely. You know, as we are watching the clock as well, making sure you have plenty of time. No problem. We're going to put down to number eight on the question there. But me and Brett, we've both been twice to the Holy Lands. We've both been twice to Magdala and various different regions and seen a lot of things. And you can definitely say that people's faith has been deepened, grown. I shared last night with our church, my trip, and shared all the photos and had a question and answer time. And just a wonderful time of sharing how the Lord deepened my faith by walking where Jesus walked and opened my eyes more than just a book or a Bible study can do. I mean, you're walking and seeing and touching exactly what Jesus did. But you've seen over the course of your almost 20 years there in Israel and in Jerusalem and Magdala, thousands of pilgrimages, thousands of people come through there. Is there a story or are there stories that sort of stand out to you? Maybe an event that happened that you would want to share? And if not, that's fine. I just, an idea that I had as we were walking through that. Sure, actually, just two days ago, a few days ago, I'm not sure exactly which day it was, a group was leaving. And you remember the chapel, the Jairus Chapel, where a daughter usually puts her hand into Jesus' hand beside the little girl, the daughter of Jairus. And we say that prayer. Thank you, Jesus, for holding my hand. Keep my hand in your hand. Always never let it go, Jesus. And then we do a prayer for the parents and the grandparents, the uncles and aunts. Jesus, thank you for holding our daughter's hand, our granddaughter's hand, our niece's hand and so on. Fill her with life, Jesus. Like one day you filled the daughter of Jairus and his wife with life. And when her greatest day comes, Jesus, fill her with the fullness of everlasting life, with all the angels and saints in glory. I can't tell you how many people have come to me. So just a few days ago, a couple shared with me that their daughter had a very tragic news. Just two days before they left from here, our boyfriend ended her life with a revolver, ended his life with a revolver. And so they were leaving for the Holy Land and she had other friends around her as well. But they came with that heavy load. And then the Lord consoled them. And I had no idea they were in that situation. Maybe most people in the group didn't know. I'm not sure if they shared it with anybody else. And so they know that today. I know that. And I know who this couple is. And I don't have the contact information or anything, but I know who they are. And so they shared that story with me. They wanted to release that news. They said how significant it was. There was another, in the same chapel, the same prayer six or eight years ago. There was a lady who was weeping at the end of that moment. And she said to me, I have to share this with you. For years I was fighting God why my daughter, why our daughter needed to die. And she said, I've been released from that pain, from that struggle, from that wrestling with God. I, you know, it's a grace she received. So I remember once I got an email from a guy. I think he was from Mississippi. And he had a picture of when I took a prayer with his hand up on Peter's hand, Jesus pulling him out of the water. You know, walking on the water chapel, the storm of the sea. And he said, I have to tell you how important this moment was for us. He said, I had a special prayer there. And that was like nine or ten months ago. But in the summertime, our grandchild, 12-year-old grandchild, was on a rafting camp in Alaska. And he lost his life in the raft, in the white water. When we got the news, the first thing that came to my mind was the picture, was the prayer that I spoke at that place. And I went to the computer and looked for that picture. And I want to share with you that a few months ago when we had went through this tragedy, that this was a moment of great blessing. So the things that we're doing here is really not our doing. It's God's doing. And sometimes, you know, the Lord is trying to reach us and we don't get reached. But there are moments in life when it doesn't have to be the Holy Land. It can be in your own room. The Lord touches our hearts. It can be through a sickness. It can be through news of an accident. It can be a good thing or a bad thing that happens. But the Lord can get our attention and give us the grace that we need and we're aware of it. And I would say that everybody is blessed in the Holy Land. Some people only find out years later, like that gentleman found out about five months later, why God gave him that moment of prayer, preparing him in the middle of a stormy sea with Jesus holding his hand in rough waters, because the wavy water is there, and his son, he's imagining him in the white water. He would just wish he could have been there and saved his grandson in Alaska. It didn't happen. So he's now with Jesus again and Jesus holding him so he doesn't sink in the waters of sorrow and grief. And so many other things. There was a lady, an American lady, and for some reason, she ended up in the Soviet Union years and decades ago. And she ended up being very, very abused, unimaginable abuse, and for a long time. And she finally was able to escape back to the U.S. and rebuild her life. And then she came to Magdala. And this was with my sister who was working here. And she was down in the Encounter Chapel. And she had that moment of prayer there. And she said, Jesus restored my dignity. So she had terrible assault to her old personal dignity that she was worth nothing because the way she was treated. And here in this moment of prayer, Jesus restored her dignity. So there are different types and areas of help. We've heard many things about different types of healings, but that's not unique to this place. The Lord can, the biggest probably healing that we all need is a strengthening of our faith to realize that we're always in God's presence, that he never leaves us, he never abandons us, that they strengthen our virtue of hope. That we're anchored in Christ and there's nothing that can overcome us. And that we're strengthening our love, that we're able to grow in that level of patience we need for life's challenges and difficulties, that we're able to grow in that forgiveness that we need to receive or to share with others. And that we're able to grow in that service, putting our lives at the service. And so many people serve a lot. They serve at home, their children, their children are sick. They serve at the gas station because that's where they're working. They serve in the supermarket checkout. That's where they're working. And to grow in the love for that, that's not just a drudgery, but it's actually being in Christ and serving Christ and those who come to check out their groceries in the supermarket. There's so many ways to live the faith, the hope, the love. And that's what we really need. Like these other events that I told you about, okay, they're very sensational, they're sensational, they're very dramatic. But it's the ordinary life that we all need to be renewed. And I would say the pilgrimage helps a lot of people in that way. It gives them a new, it's a moment of grace, it's a moment of prayer, it's a moment of God's action in our lives where we let him happen, let him do his work in our lives. Amen. One of the things that amazed me when I was there, Father Kelly, was the interfaith dynamic that you have to navigate. Magdala attracts so many people of so many different faith backgrounds and stories. Yeah. About Baptists and Jews and things like that. And so hearing you tell stories of these different groups. So I want to ask you, how do interfaith experiences shape your work and the understanding of witnesses? I think somehow I was blessed by the Lord since I was a child in this way. And in Ireland, growing up in the West of Ireland, it's like, it was 99% Catholic and at least on the cover. Okay. Who knows what everybody's heart was or the difficulties they were having or whatever, but in general. And the respect my dad had, there was a guy who used to deliver the gas cylinders for us because that was our extra energy besides the wood and the farm for burning and for cooking and so on. We had a gas oven as well. And the man was Methodist. And my dad would say, God bless the poor man. So we were learning to respect and love, cherish what we had as a gift of our faith in the church. And somebody was different. My dad, he had worked in England a lot as a young man, as a carpenter. And so he had been exposed to a lot of people. But I received that in my home. And then there was a granduncle of ours who was looked after by a lady who wasn't Catholic. And she used to come to visit sometimes from England. He had been working in the civil service in England and she wasn't Catholic. But the respect and love that my parents received them with in the home and didn't make an issue out of it. For us, like the marker was to go to mass on Sundays, right? So obviously this lady didn't do that. And so, but we never had a critical judgment about her. We never called her out. It was, gave her the maximum love because she had taken such care of our granduncle when he was very sick. And then, you know, the work I did in the States was an exposure to a lot more wearing Catholic because Catholics are a minority in the States the years I was there. But the majority of my work was among Catholics. Then I went to, I was assigned, I was working in Germany, like I told you, for 11 years. And sometimes I showed up at a retreat organized by young people. I had encouraged them to organize a retreat and half the kids were Lutheran. So I had to change my whole, how I would do the retreat because I wanted to be an encouragement for all the Lutheran kids that were at the retreat without offending them and also without depriving the Catholics. So finding the common denominators, where, what can we build on together? And if we're doing some things that are specific to Catholic to do it in a way that's also going to be helpful for them so they can understand what we're doing so that we can understand and learn to respect each other. And then being assigned here was very special in that way. Also the work in New York, because I did a lot of work in New York, in Manhattan and met a lot of Jewish people. They really didn't know much about the Jewish faith, actually. And it was an interesting time having conversations with them. But here then it's a maximum of that peak of encounter every day. I could just talk to you about our employees. All our employees here are Jewish, Muslim, Druze. We have Bedouins, that's an ethnicity, Christians and atheists and agnostics. And it's just an incredible mix. We had 240 Israelis living with us for 16 months during the war. They had to be evacuated from their homes and they needed places. They're coming from kibbutz, so they're not religious Jews and they wouldn't be going to synagogue very much at all. And so, you know, it's all the time a continuing education and you're responsible for a synagogue and for ritual baths of the Jewish people from 2000 years ago. So all of that works on you. So I think the first thing is that we ourselves are stretched in our hearts to make space for others. That's a beautiful line that St. Paul appeals, I think, to the Philippians or I'm not sure who he appeals to and says, stretch your hearts, make space for me like I make space in my heart for you. And for us Christians, sometimes we can fall into a trap of being very judgmental. And since we are very convinced that we have the right thing and probably most human beings think the same way, we're very judgmental, easily judgmental. We can fall into that very easily of others. And there are whole lots of scripture and doctrine to talk about, but we can have a lot of prejudice without getting to know the person. And sometimes there was an atheist man working here and I had quite a few conversations with him. And he was a marvelous man. He was teaching his kids, 12, 14 year olds, not to hate the Muslims at the beginning of the war after October 7th, 23. I was fascinated by that man. And there was a man that didn't have a religious dimension, but he was teaching his kids that they shouldn't learn hatred. And how to deal in that environment. And there'd be plenty of people that would express hatred and express vengeance and revenge thoughts. But he was teaching his kids to have a bigger heart, to have understanding. I was fascinated by that man. So I think that the fact of learning about the others, our cardinal here, Pete Zabala, relates a very similar, he's 10 years younger than me. But he was from Northern Italy. And he said when he came to study at Hebrew University, it was the first time people questioned his Catholic faith. Because nobody questioned in Northern Italy. Everybody was Catholic. And then he said through those conversations, he learned a lot about his own faith because of the questions they would ask. So to meet the other who's different is actually an incredible, it can be a very enriching experience. We shouldn't be nervous about it. We should have great respect for the others. God respects me. He respects you. He respects us Christians. He respects every human being. And even in the Bible, it says he brings the rain down and the fields of the good and the bad alike. So he doesn't even make distinctions because he wants everybody to have a blessing that he's still there providing. So that when they're ready to come back, the door is open like the prodigal son finds the door open. Not just open, he finds a party. More joy in heaven over one sinner. And somehow we can be very judgmental and we can be very harsh with our fellow believers and with those who don't believe exactly like we do. Or who believe something completely different. And I know there are huge issues in all this field, so we wouldn't do it just in five minutes here. But I think that we wouldn't be making a mistake to enlarge our hearts, to make space for others without judging them. And we can pray for them. We can say, Lord, show them and show me also the great truth of your love. Because I'm still discovering God's love. And I think in heaven, we will not just go in and have it all in one moment. We're forever. We're going to be growing in greater capacity to understand the infinity of God's love. I mean, if he made, they can't count the number of stars. Who can count the number of atoms? Yeah. And if we're human beings, aren't able to do that, that's just the smallest shadow of the incountability, if you want to use that word, the unfathomability of God's reality. and it's just the gift that God has, like he said to the woman at the well Jesus did, he said, if you only knew the gift God has for you, if you only knew the gift of God, if we only knew, if we only knew the saints God is making in other places with his providence, and that shouldn't allow us to go away from what the gift we have. We have a huge gift. The gift we have in Christ is immense. The eternal word of God made flesh. Who died on Calvary for us, who rose from the dead, who poured out the Holy Spirit upon us from the Father, and living God, living inside us, inhabiting us, what more could we want? What more could we desire? And that's our whole life is trying to discover that it's finally being able to have enough of common sense to wake up and accept this extraordinary pouring out of God into our lives. So this is something really off the charts. You know, it's huge. And then that experience meeting the others, we don't have to do all the work. We only have a few minutes with people most of the time. Some people have 40 minutes with us here. Some people stay two or three days, but they're out all the day. You see them at breakfast maybe, or see them at supper. You give them a tour. There's a bit more contact because they can study you a bit better. They're there a couple of days, so they're watching you. They're watching the community. But it's amazing. I think we're going to be a lot of surprises in heaven. Absolutely. You know, that statement was said to me by one of our guys on the trip with us. He said, we were talking to our guide, and he said one of the largest groups of people, because we noticed there were a lot of Chinese people that were there, Asian people. And he said the largest group of people that come and have a Holy Land visit is from China. And he said the underground church, they want to come and experience the Holy Land. And he said more people come from China than anywhere else. And one of the guys looked at me and he said, I think we're going to be surprised when we get to heaven with who is there and who's not. Like, hold on, China? Like underground? This doesn't make sense in our mind. And I long for that day. It's good to be able to talk to you. We're going to ask you two questions. I know we've got about 12 minutes left. What are the next milestones for Magdala? What are things in the future? I know you've got a couple of projects that are going on. What's the next phases of things? And then Brett's going to ask the final question to let you close with any final thoughts. So, our big task every day now is trying to look after our pilgrims. COVID came. We started a very strong outreach through social media, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram. I started a sunrise stroll and chat every morning at 6 a.m. when the sun rises. So we do a lot in that area. And a lot of things are beginning to mature. In a certain sense, we have a lot of the infrastructure. We have some things still to do. We need help to build a restaurant. And we'd love the Baptists to be involved. We'd love every church to be involved. Because imagine if we could all build this restaurant together. And we'd have a monument outside the restaurant where it says Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Sleepy Catholic, Anglican, Episcopalian, Orthodox Christians. We all build it together, the Pentecostals. We all build it together. People would come and say, wow, that's not possible. That didn't happen. Yeah, the guys are going to say, look here, it's written here in this stone. They all built it together. And then we'll have an art piece with John 17, 2023, when Jesus is saying, Father, may they all be one like you are in me and I am in you, so that the world will believe that you sent me. And I think there's a beautiful gift happening already in that direction where Christians lose their prejudices and develop friendships with each other. We don't need to make it too romantic and poetic right now because it's a rocky road. It's not easy. It's a challenge of grace transforming our own lives. If we get rid of our prejudice, we still have two major things. The difference we have reading scripture, difference we have doing theology. But if we have prejudice, we shouldn't even bother talking because we'll just be aggressively more hostile to each other. We'll alienate each other more. We'll walk steps away from each other. But if we could do one step closer overcoming our prejudices and building something together. So this is a big step we want to do right now. And we obviously have more infrastructure work. We have more excavations to do, although we're not in a big hurry to do it because we have such sensational discoveries that people are still discovering here in Magla. The biggest thing I think is what the ministry is going to do that's happening here. The friendships with pastors, with different churches. I can't tell you how many pastors we have just a best of friends. Pentecostal, Assemblies of God, Baptists, all kinds of Baptists because there's a whole bunch of different Baptists. I just learned that we had Baptist pastors come here from Texas and from North Carolina two weeks ago with Methodists, with Wesleyan, with non-denomination, with evangelicals. and they came here to see how can we build this together one step closer hospitality together. And the things that can come out of this with pastors, with churches, I think only the Lord knows the future in that sense. I think it's part of surprise us. We wrote a principle when we did our branding 12 years ago now. And one of the principles was for the vision that Magla should be a catalyst for renewal and reconciliation worldwide. And we never imagined that we'd be doing this type of work with the different churches. So the Lord let this flower blossom and we saw more petals opening up with new colors that we didn't anticipate. And we didn't know where the Lord will take it. I mean, we have an idea and we hopefully, I'd say pray for us that we will, our hearts will allow the Lord to do all he wants to do in our lives. And what he wants to bring out, the fruits he wants to bring from these blossoms he's letting unfold, these plants that are beginning to germinate and grow up. Also, the relationship between Jews and Christians is already being deeply blessed here, but it still hasn't found the concrete form. And I'm sure that's coming. It's a matter of time. It's a matter of fidelity. It's a matter of responding to grace and letting God heal all these relationships that have sometimes been very deeply damaged in the past. Like 30 years war between Christians in Europe. All the horrible things that happened in my country in Northern Ireland. But also the things that happened in the decadence of our own lives. And the renewal we need. The tensions inside church communities that have left wounds that need to be healed. There's so much to do in all of this area. And the Lord is doing. If he was able to do with Mary Magdalene and have her be the first witness, how many new first witness are going to come out for all sectors of society, for the Chinese, for Asia, for Africa, for Europe today needs a lot of work. The Lord is doing it. Yeah. Amen. Well, Father Keller, we want to thank you for coming on today and being a part of our podcast here. Thank you for taking up your time. Just as kind of a last question and kind of getting your final thoughts. What is your prayer for those listening today? Whether they come to Magdala, they make the pilgrimage, or they take those ideas back to their communities. What's your prayer for those listening? Thank you. I would say, you know, you don't have to wait to come here to start. Amen. You can plan to come here. Put it high up on the bucket list if you're a person that does travel. Why let the Holy Lab be the last thing you do when you're 90? Do it now so that it impacts your life earlier. Just before I came over here, I took extra time with the family. The three little boys, they were also Baptists. No, they were Lutherans. And mom and dad, and there was an older couple that weren't the grandparents with them. And I just gave them some extra time. And the boys were, the oldest was like 12 or 13. And then the youngest fellow was probably six or seven or seven-ish maybe. And just the blessing it was to see them and the way that family was so closely knit and so warm and these kids with such potential. The Lord not only knows what's going to come from them in that little encounter today. You know, the work that was done with that family and by their parents and their grandparents for the last 10, 15, 20 years, we're all sowing in God's vineyard. We're all sowing seeds. We're all, and we ask the Lord to open our hearts to overcome our little limitations. And when we have limitations, we can't easily overcome to give us the patience that we can plod along and resonate His love as much as possible to all those around us in gratitude and humility, asking for forgiveness, giving forgiveness, serving, being grateful, being grateful. If you want, they can check into the Sunrise Stroll and Chat. You can put up some links for that. It's on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram. And I would love them to get involved with onestepcloser.org to get in there. And there's a bunch of Baptists getting involved with that. And I think we get a lot of Baptists. They can be high up in the totem pole there. And the participation in this restaurant. And the restaurant isn't about the restaurant. It's about giving witness to John 17, 20 to 23. May they all be one Father as you and I are one so the world will believe that you sent me. Yeah. That's an amazing word. And that's kind of a culmination of the mystery of salvation. It's antithesis to Babel, the Tower of Babel. It's completely all separated, broken up. The antithesis to Cain and Abel, it's the embrace of the other despite they're not exactly made to my measure. It's the endorsement and information of all that God is doing good in the other even if he's a criminal today, even if he's a drug lord, even if he's a corrupt politician. Our work isn't to condemn them. Our work is to provide the prayer, the encouragement, the healing of our society. Yeah. Yeah. I long for the day where we can all be one together and one day that'll be true in heaven and thankful that we can have a small part of that here on earth as we share the gospel with others, as we share the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus and thankful for what you're doing there and the impact that you're having and thank you so much for your time and spending an hour and some minutes with us and listener, I hope this was a blessing to you and hopefully we can maybe line up a second episode and talk through some of the daily life and theological portions of where you're at there but thank you so much Father Kelly for coming on today and sharing your time with us. We'll sign off when to God be the glory. Great things he has done. Amen. Amen. Amen. And I want to thank you for inviting me. It's very gracious of you and may it be blessed for everybody. I found my new name I found that good grace I found that healing And the tears fell down my face When I found my beginning That has no ending I found that second chance I found my best friend I found my forgiveness I found my happiness I've been singing ever since I found my freedom in you Thanks for listening to the For Freedom Podcast If you enjoyed the content of the podcast please do us a favor by liking, subscribing or sharing the podcast on whatever podcast platform you listen to I will find myrew I will find my

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