202 . Re-Release of Ep 169. Fundamental Footprints - Examining Hyles-Anderson College – A Legacy of Influence and Concern. Our Top listened Episode of 2025

I was 13 years old the first time I walked into a church that big. 5,000 people packed into an auditorium, scrambling for seats in the balcony at a youth conference in Hammond, Indiana. It was electric. A man in a suit and glasses brushed past me. I didn't think much of it. Until someone later told me that was Jack Piles himself. That night, a skinny preacher in a burlap suit preached a message called America, America. He showed a three-minute abortion video that left no one's dry eye. And when he shouted, somebody's got to stand up and say that's not right. I felt something pull at my heart. I walked the aisle and surrendered to preach along with hundreds of other teams. That skinny preacher in the burlap suit. His name was Jack Scott. Fast forward five years. I'm a freshman at Howes Anderson College. Nothing could have prepared me for the Chicago winters. Wind chills, 20 below, frostbite warnings. Five months without seeing a blade of grass. But in the middle of all that ice and snow, I was asked to be a bus captain. Freshmen usually didn't get that kind of responsibility. My first weekend out visiting my new route, I got a call. Jack Hiles had died. But Jack Scott, the same man who preached the message that changed my life, was going to take the reins. Surely, the future was bright. My future, however, wasn't. I found out that as a bus captain, I was financially responsible for the Christian school bills of the kids on my bus route. So, semester after semester, my own tuition was siphoned away, and I fell further and further behind. Then came the TV incident. My roommate, one of five, had one. It was against the rules. It wasn't mine. I didn't watch it, but I didn't snitch either. And at that school, silence was guilt. I walked into that room, sitting at the disciplinary table. It was a who's who of fundamentalism. Jack Scott, Ray Young, John Francis, Daryl Moore, Wendell Evans, Eddie Lapina, just to name a few. They told me I'd be punished like I own the TV myself. That weekend, I packed up what little I had left. I was done with the rules. I was done with the nepotism. I was done with the double standards. I never found out if I was expelled or not. I just left. Ten years later, my life had changed. I was married. Graduated from college. Back in the ministry. On staff at my home church. And one day, my pastor called me in. Jack Scott, the man whose sermon once moved me to the altar, had taken a 16-year-old across state lines for moral purposes. Lost his family. Lost his church. Lost his freedom. And in that moment, I thought to myself, somebody should have told him that wasn't right. I willrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrew I found my freedom in you. I found a joy I can't lose. And thank God it's true. You wrapped your arms around me. And heaven broke through from the moment you found me. I found my freedom in you. Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now, here are your hosts, James Safer and Brad Martin. Welcome back to the For Freedom Podcast. It is a great Lord's Day that we just had this last weekend with Resurrection Sunday. And every Sunday is Resurrection Sunday, but it's always more special when it is the Easter celebration, the festival of the Resurrection. And we are excited to be back with you, be back with you today recording. And we just finished up our Woke series, which was a great time. Great info, great feedback that we have from you guys. And we appreciate that. And we're starting a new five-part series leading up to our summer break. And we'll give you more information about that just in a little bit. But, Brett, Resurrection Sunday just happened. How was that for you guys? And what were some highlights from this weekend for y'all? Man, we had a massive, massive Sunday. Man, we had a lot of people in the property. And we still had some families out. If we'd had our normal families, plus all the guests and people we had, we probably wouldn't be able to fit them all. We had a children's church Sunday. Kids loved it. Egg hunt. We had breakfast that morning. We had main service at 9 a.m. It was a massive, massive success. I got visitor cards. And it was a successful Sunday. Like I heard about your sunrise service. I know you were preaching on how pagan Easter is and preaching against the Easter bunny and things like that. I think that's noble to preach on. I applaud you for that. Well, you know, like I always say, someone's got to do it. And if not me, then... Exactly. Exactly. But, yeah, we had a great Sunday. Great turnout. It couldn't have went any better. And I'm just looking forward to next Sunday. Try to ride this way, baby. That's right. I love it. Yeah, ours was great as well. We did have a sunrise service at 630. Several visitors there. Our thing, Brett, was our spring break fell the week before Easter this year. Normally it falls the week after. And so because of that, we had, man, probably 30 people, 10 families that were out on vacation. And so that was a big hit. But we had some visitors there, some visiting families, some visiting folks from the community, which was a good thing. And excited about what the Lord's doing. We've got some big things coming up with our graduation Sunday. That's always a big time for us. And just, you know, trying to reach the people that are around us and get people plugged in. And so that's a great thing. Brett, how was your... Did y'all have a spring break? You homeschool your kids. You're one of those weird people that homeschool. But y'all don't do a spring break or anything? Or how's that work out for y'all? We do a spring break. We let the boys take off, you know, and not do their schoolwork the week of. And I think our spring break was the week after the school's spring break. But just like you, we had some low Sundays around before and after spring break with families going out of town. And that's fine. But, you know, the kids got to have a week off of schoolwork. And, you know, things were going good for them. They've got basketball and friends. And so they were just tickled pink. They got to take off. They vegged on video games the whole time? Oh, yeah. Fortnite and, you know, playing basketball and playing Fortnite. I mean, I wish I had it that easy when I was a kid. Right, right. Yeah, we took this last week off during spring break. And we went to Georgia, Stone Mountain, Georgia. Had a great time at the campground down there. We camped out for three, four nights. And then we drove over to Atlanta and went to a Braves game. And had to hang out there with a little bit. Got to go to their new stadium. I've officially been to all three of their stadiums. And so that was a great time there. And then we had our Easter bash on Saturday. And I had a great time with the kids. But, yeah, it was a good week, good weekend, good time to get away from some things and reconnect with the family. And I just had a great time. Let's see what we got coming up on the calendar. Ah, don't forget, if you are going to be in Dallas, in and around Dallas for the National Southern Baptist Convention in Dallas, we've, this year, hit us up. I think it's going to be June 8th through 11th. I think those are the dates. But hit us up. Me and James are going to be there. We're going to be hanging out with some guys. I think Marcus Merritt will be there around Luther Rice tent and booth. And we want to meet you. We want to talk to you. We want to have conversations with you. We want to meet up. So just let us know. We'll be there. And getting some of that free swag stuff we all get. And so, man, I come away from that convention with so many books. I've still got pens here in my office from the last convention. These paintbrush pens, they passed out. Man, they're really bad. I don't like them. But I've got plenty of them. But I am looking forward to the convention this year. And what else we got going on? Yeah, I'm super pumped about the convention. It's a time where our family gets to get away. It's sort of a vacation slash recharge in the ministry. Lots of great preaching. You get to see some family. Not only friends, but also my actual family lives. I've got some. My sister lives in Dallas, about 45 minutes north of Dallas. So I'll be there the week before as well, hanging out with them. And so I'm pumped about it as well. Love the books that we get. The resources that we get to help encourage us as pastors. What a great time that is. And then we are also, our cigar line's out. This is a small way where you can help support our podcast. And we are really close to rolling out our sweet cigar, our sweet ticket. That should be the time where we will, hopefully next week is our time where we're sampling our sweet ones. And then it'll roll out and all four of our cigars will be out. And we've got some good things coming up in the future. So if you haven't went over to our cigar webpage, 1689cigars.com, backslash for freedom. The link's also in so notes. Go over, check it out, the great small way where you can encourage us by supporting the show and getting on some great things. Father's Day's coming up. Graduation time's coming up. Great gifts that you can give out during that time. You may have someone that's about to give birth and go and have a celebratory cigar. That's a great way to do that. And we've got some wonderful things there for you. And then, Brett, last thing. Israel's coming up. Are you excited about Israel? Man, I'm very excited about it. I mean, for freedom in the Holy Land. And I would love nothing more than to have some of our listeners on the trip with us. I think that would be a great opportunity for us and them if we could go with some of our listeners to Israel. I've been thinking about those buffets. I've been trying to explain to people the massive buffets in these five-star hotels that we stay at in Israel and things like in Tiberias on the Sea of Galilee. I mean, for a breakfast buffet to have no pork, no bacon, no sausage, you still have plenty of options. And, man, I can't wait to wake up one morning and go out to the Sea of Galilee and watch the sunrise over the Sea of Galilee. Just imagine being Peter out on the boat fishing all night. And then, man, it's just an amazing, amazing thing. We're going to places this next trip, this coming up trip, that me and you haven't went on before. We haven't been to some of the places like the upper room. Okay? It may not be the actual upper room. But think about this. I was watching a video on this the other day. The steps going up to the upper room that's there now are the Roman steps. So these are the same steps that Jesus would have walked on as he was walking from the upper room to the garden. And, man, just things like that out of the Church of the Flagellation. I want to go down. I want to see the stone. And so these are some things that I want to do. And so I can't wait for Israel. I'm excited about it. Preserve your spot now. Pay the registration. And let's go to the Holy Land. Yeah, I had some great conversations this last week. Like I said, a couple weeks ago, I got to share with my daughter's class just the garden experience leading to the crucifixion, the Via Del Rosa, being able to talk through those things with them. But then I had some conversations this week with some individuals from our church and our community that were excited and possibly wanting to go and just had some questions about it. Man, I was just energized talking about it, talking about where we were going to stay, the cost of it, how one guy told me, he said, man, I priced this trip out years ago and I couldn't get it for this cost. And so I was encouraged to hear that. And so wonderful time. If you ever wanted to go, now's the time to go. There's boots on the ground. There's people that are there. Marcus Merritt just got back and said it was a great experience, a great time. And so we are looking forward to going and we hope you join us. All that information is on our social media pages and on our website, forfreedompodcast.com. You can go over there and check that out and jump in on the trip with us. I know your heart will be blessed. I know we'll be blessed to have you with us. And it'll be a wonderful, wonderful time to experience Israel with the For Freedom podcast. And so we're excited about that. Well, Brett, we are starting into a series of the, it's going to be a small series, a five-week series. John started the podcast 169 episodes ago, and he started with the history of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Movement. And he really started with J. Frank Norris. He was the founding father, branching off from the Southern Baptist Convention a couple of times and starting a couple of different associations, which eventually evolved into the Independent Fundamental Baptist Movement. And from there, we talked through just a couple of other people. But really what happened was we started talking about the King James Only issue and the King James Only Movement. And we really never picked back up on the history and the founding of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Movement. And so what me and Brett have decided to do is we're going to jump in with really what happened after J. Frank Norris. Who were the people on stage? What happened? And how did the movement begin to flourish? We're going to start today talking about Howes-Innerston College, the legacy and the influence of that college and Jack Howes and the concerns that we have with the organization. And over the next four weeks after this, we're going to talk to Bob Jones, Pensacola, Crown, some of the legacies, J. Frank, Ruckman, Roloff, Lee Robertson, some of those other, Carl Hatch, Tom Malone, some of those other guys. And even Bob Jones Sr. there in Longview in Texas and begin to talk through some of the influence that have began to happen. Because it started with J. Frank Norris, but then it began to branch out. And so we're going to talk through that over the next little couple of weeks. We've got a pretty loaded topic, one that's going to ruffle a few feathers, but it's one that needs to be talked about. Absolutely. We're diving into the history, the influence, and the controversy surrounding Howes-Innerston College, a school that's been at the center of the independent fundamental Baptist world for decades upon decades. I was talking to my mom just a couple of months ago, Brett, about Howes-Innerston and the influence that it had. I grew up in an independent fundamental Baptist church, but never actually heard the name Jack Howes until I was about 16 or 17 years old. And, man, it was not that our new pastor that had come in when I was just a young child, six years old, seven years old. And he wasn't really big into name dropping. And so he would just preach and love people. Now, the pastor before him, Jack Howes, actually had came and preached at our church and would preach around. And so my mom and dad knew who he was, but just never was a big topic of conversation. And so, Brett, why are we talking about this? What's the reason? Well, I'll tell you, we're not just doing this to stir the pot. We're not doing this just to throw stones. This is about transparency, helping people think critically, especially those looking at Christian education options. Because, look, I wasn't told. When I went into this, Howes Anderson, no one told me what I was in for. Nobody told me the history. Nobody told me what was really going on. I went in with blinders on. Jack Howes was my pastor's hero. And so all we want to do is get the information out there. We want people to know what they're getting into. Yeah, and I think by part of doing that, we want people to think. We want people to think critically, use the brain that God's given them. But in doing that, we must start at the beginning. So Howes Anderson College, HAC, as people like to word it, was founded in 1972 by Jack Howes himself, who was already becoming a major figure in the IFB world at the time. He was traveling evangelist. As people were taking note of him, he took First Baptist Church of Hammond, which was a Southern Baptist church, and had left the convention and became part of the independent movement that was going on that J. Frank Norris had began. And now he is making this national spotlight in a lot of the same way that J. Frank Norris was doing it. But now he started a college. So now he's got preacher boys. He's got young men. He's got families moving to the area to begin coming to this college that he started. Now, James, little factoid, did you know that Howes Anderson used to be a monastery? I did not. Yes, it was a monastery. There are tunnels underneath that the nuns used to use. There's a tunnel from one of the girls' dorms to the island in the middle of the lake. So these are things that people need to know about it. But yeah, it was a monastery at one point. Are those tunnels operational? No, and there's actually some old stories about things that were found in the tunnels. And I don't know if I could repeat that, the stories on here. But it was quite the conspiracy theories going on with the tunnels were used for. But the name Howes Anderson actually comes from Russell Anderson. This was a businessman. He was a devout supporter who financially backed the school. Anderson poured a ton of money into this dream school that Howes wanted. A place to train pastors, missionaries, and Christian workers who would go out and quote-unquote change the world. But under a very specific, strict ideology. And Russell Anderson would come to the school. We'd hear him preach from time to time. He'd come and speak. He's a nice man. I've had conversations with him in passing. And so I've met Russell Anderson a handful of times. Yeah. You know, the college itself was built really in essence, and I know you've mentioned this, but Jack Howes built it in essence to serve the booming ministry of the church. You know, he used to say in his tapes, I'll never take a college student to build a church. But what he did, he used the college to build the ministry of the First Baptist Church of Hammond and where he pastored and served for many years. And under Howes Anderson, under Jack Howes' leadership, the church claimed attendance of tens of thousands and had the largest Sunday school in the world at a time and the largest bus ministry in the world. And I mean, to say that this was massive would have been an understatement. This was a huge undertaking of megachurches before megachurches were big. You know, we've got some megachurches going on in the world right now. But this was an undertaking on a grand scale of, I mean, overcoming complete city blocks to build churches on. And he believed that the key to continuing that momentum was through training what we fondly attribute to what we call soul winners who followed the Howes method of reaching the lost by winning the lost through door-to-door evangelism and bus ministry of soul winning. Right. And let me remind you what the exact quote was that Howes used to say. He used to say this. I will I will never use my ministry to build my people. Wait a minute. No, I will never use my people to build my ministry, but I will use my. I have it typed here wrong, but he said, I will use my ministry to build my people and not my people to build my ministry. That that's it. But, you know, that's a lie. If I ever heard one, because that was the total opposite of my experience. And listen, the college was a farming system for the ministries of the church. You're supposed to be there. You're supposed to be getting an education. But the education was secondary. You're supposed to berewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrewrew ones going to heaven, where the only ones are going to be the bride of Christ. And you had to fit this Jack Hiles mode, even to the point where he would preach that Jesus fit the Jack Hiles mode, that Jesus had a tapered haircut and Jesus was clean shaven. And the beard that was plucked out of his face was the five o'clock shadow because he usually shaved. And so getting up preaching that Jesus fit Jack Hiles mode. And that would just manipulate everybody to want to look like him. That's right. Yeah. You know, I remember thinking as I was growing up that the independent fundamental movement was this massive movement of, and it was a big movement, I'm not going to lie. But when I left and I even went to conferences and people would ask, you know, we'd sit in a round table and they'd say, Hey, you know, where'd you grow up at? And I'd sort of be like, Oh, independent Baptist church. And you could see everyone knew what it was in their eyes. Like, Oh, well, that's one of those guys. But man, there was so many that once we realized that the pool was not as big as it was, and there were bigger, better things out there. And the neglect, I would say, and this is the end of our show notes, the neglect, I would say that, that we had growing up was the Bible was, was first and foremost, man, we love our Bible. And that was held at the highest esteem, but the discipleship ship and the growing and owning our faith was not there. And I think that's the biggest struggle that we had. You spoke of the mold. The mold was, was very strict, right? We, we know this, the, the dress codes were non-negotiable. Men had to have short hair, could not touch the ears, could not go sideburns, couldn't go past the cut of the ear. I don't know if that's how Jack house and theirs was. I know it champion. You could not go past the cut of the ear, um, had to wear white shirts and ties all the time. Uh, women had to wear skirts past the knees, no pants. And we're not even give getting into the rules of music, dating and movies, but you can name it of as, as strict as you want it. That's where it was at. And there was some strict rules there. Exactly. And you talk, you know, I will say, I will agree with you that they, as far as even my experience, they love the Bible, but they weren't taught the Bible. Yeah. Just looking back over. All right. I'll tell you this. I pulled up a message maybe a couple months ago of my pastor preaching at our old home church. He's the pastor. He doesn't pass it there anymore, but he was in town. They let him preach on Wednesday night and I listened to it for a few minutes and it was the same, same preference driven pet peeve sermon. He preached. I heard him preach for 20 years. Just the same thing, reheated, no exegesis, no digging into scripture, man. We were just starved for scripture. And with that kind of attitude, you just didn't get it. Okay. And you mentioned the dress code. Um, I didn't, I'm like you, I didn't have a problem with the dress code as far as what they required me to do. Cause like you said so many times, that's what you sign up for. Okay. Um, I mean, I, I'm talking about while I was there and in it, I didn't have a problem with it while I was there and in it, I did have a problem with the double standard of the music because like, for instance, Southern gospels against the rules. So no cathedrals, no legacy five, no Gaither vocal band, no, no inspirations. Okay. Uh, but here's the thing that dorm soups, they would confiscate the music and you go into their offices and they'd have these vast libraries of music in their office and they'd show this music off to people like it's trophies on a wall. Like they, they've got a eight point buck on the wall and they, they listened to it in their office, but kept it away from us. I thought that was a double standard. And James, let me tell you who I really felt sorry for this college. I really felt sorry for the girls because I could leave the college anytime I wanted to, but the go to the girls, man, they, they were stuck there. They couldn't leave the property unless there were three of them. One of them had to be an approved chaperone, which meant one of the group of three had to be a junior or a senior. I think in general, the students, they weren't treated like adults. We were treated like kids at camp and all these rules we had to follow. It was just legalism packages, holiness. They were more concerned with outward conformity than inward transformation. No, absolutely. And that's the, that's the struggle with it. Uh, because oftentimes we would hear preach, right? Get them saved and the, the spirit take care of the rest. He'll cut their hair. He'll cut their beard. He'll make them dress right. Uh, it was this, uh, legalism and sanctification that we talk about all the time. Uh, but, but we want to talk about some influential figures and the impact that they've had as we talk through some of this, uh, part of how's Anderson, what they did and, and part of the influential figures, we're not going to even mention today. We're going to be mentioning over the next couple of weeks and the spread of what house Anderson has, um, has done over the years. And so some big names that come out of house Anderson, the first and foremost would be Jack Scott. As you mentioned in the cold open, uh, that stands out. He was Jack house, a son-in-law and eventually the successor to first Baptist church of Hammond. Right. And I'll tell you a little story. My very first day at house Anderson college, I just pulled up to the college to start my college career. I get out of my truck in the parking lot. I hand slams down on my shoulder. I turned around and it's Jack Scott and I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, Hey buddy, I need a bodyguard because I was such a big guy. And man, I thought, man, I had just been blessed by a saint. You know, uh, I had the, I had his, his holy anointing on me now because Jack Scott put his hand on my shoulder. Uh, little did I know, uh, little did I know, little did I know, but yeah, Scott had a, a meteoric rise in that world until he fell. Of course, most of us know. And for those of you who don't, he was convicted in 2012 for taking a minor across state lines for immoral purposes. Um, that scandal rocked the whole IFB movement. Yeah. I remember when that came out, I was, uh, in Idaho and, uh, we were, uh, leaving the independent fundamental Baptist movement at the time. And, and that came out and it just rocked my world because not only that happened, but two other sexual indices happened, uh, where men were put in jail because of it, uh, which, you know, wasn't the first and the last time that this happened at house Anderson. Uh, there have been multiple accusations and we don't have the time to go through those on the podcast. There are other podcasts that do a much better job at uncovering abuse and section legalism that, that has happened. And so we're not going to necessarily go through all of those. Uh, but there is a systemic, uh, issue that is coming out of house Anderson over the years from men that have, um, had allegations and investigations into the culture of house Anderson college. Uh, the let us pray movement that came out, uh, the, the show that came out that, that talked to and uncovered a lot of that and begin the, the, the exposure of what's going on. Uh, many claiming that the, the system breeds coverups, manipulation and the abuse of authority. And, uh, by looking into it and by doing the research, uh, we definitely see that we definitely see that the authoritarian side of it does breed this coverup and, and, and, and man leading, uh, in a way that is, uh, hurtful to the cause of Christ. Um, and I think that there needs to be accountability. That's why I think the elders and leadership are so vital in a church because it holds us accountable for what we're doing. Exactly. And like you said, we're not here to necessarily get into that. There are other, other, you know, voices, other podcasts, other shows that have gotten into that a lot deeper. I will mention, uh, I will just say that I agree with you that the system breeds that kind of cover up. You've got a man at the top that that's worshiped like a mini God. He's set up on this pedestal. He gets puffed up full of pride. He thinks he can do no wrong. People follow him. They give him immense loyalty. There's this idea that you don't call the police. You don't involve the authorities. You just, oh, well, I'm gonna send you to my buddy's church. One stayed over. Try not to mess up over there. And then the guy does the same thing over there. They did the church. He left. And so, yeah, it's just, uh, the, the culture breeds that type of abuse, but still for years, people looked up to these leaders as spiritual giants. Countless churches across the country have pastors who were trained there and they carry that same approach to the ministry, whether it's church, church growth through numbers, rigid legalism, or an authoritarian style of, of leadership. Um, you know, you're, you're, you're taught at house Anderson to be a mini Jack house. And I should know I was, I was made to read the fundamental man, his, uh, his, uh, his biography. We had to read it on tape to prove that we read it. We had to read it on that. We had to record ourselves reading it on tape, you know, and, and if you know anything about Jack house, it's not necessarily a good thing. Uh, you're taught how to manipulate people into basically running their lives for them. The man of God is the final authority. Uh, you're taught to preach on your pet peeves and preferences and not the Bible. I mean, I'll be honest with you. I left college having taken the preaching class with Jack Scott as a freshman. And I left knowing nothing about preaching, interpretation, exegesis. I learned more for YouTube from YouTube years later than I ever did at house Anderson. Yeah. And you know, even speaking of, of Jack house and the cover up and the things that were going there, you know, it's well documented from his own daughter that, um, that there was a fair going on, that there was manipulation with the secretary and just so much cover up that happened, um, that, that causes and breeds this type of, um, leadership style that we've talked about and how they preach one thing and yet they're doing a different thing. Uh, there's so many others that we can talk about and we will be talking about soon. Uh, but others had different tones, uh, but yet still shared the same IFB DNA. And that's sort of what we're going to be talking about over the next couple of weeks is the DNA that, that breeds from this. So let's, let's talk about the culture and concerns, Brett. Okay. Uh, to, to kick this off, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. This is digging into the heart of the issue. Why does this matter, James, what are the real concerns about choosing a college like Hal's Anderson? Yeah, I think the first and foremost, and Brett, you're seeing this, uh, right now. And you saw this over the last couple of years of your life is the educational quality. You just mentioned how, uh, we weren't taught how to, how to exposit scripture, how to preach scripture, how to lead people well. And, uh, how's Anderson has never been accredited and many of the credits that you get from them, uh, they don't transfer anywhere else, uh, which limits students severely. If they ever want to pursue a grad school or even switch tracks, maybe halfway through after two years and say, Hey, I want to go and do this, but you don't want to take this education that I've got. I want to transfer it over to here. And the colleges are like, Nope, I'm not taking those credits. That's, that's a worthless piece of paper in our mind. Um, and so that is a huge thing. If you're going to have a college and you're someone's paying for your education, then your education needs to be at the quality of that education so that they can transfer to other universities. You know, uh, you know, on, on, on, on the movie, the water boy, mama always said, everything's a devil foosball is a devil. Well, in the higher IFB world accreditation is the devil. That means the government gets to tell you what to speak and what to say and whatnot. It's just a bunch of malarkey, bunch of baloney. You know, I was so blessed to find Trinity. Of course, Trinity, I didn't know it at the time. I'll be honest with you, James. I didn't know it until I went down to Trinity to walk and graduate and get my accredited diploma. I didn't know that Trinity was Bob Gray from Florida's old church and school that has, you know, saw the light and come out of legalism and they're, they're, they're doing pretty good down there. But I had no idea while I was attending Trinity online, that that was where the school was, but I was so blessed to find them. I didn't have to start over from scratch. They accepted most of my credits. I just had to do the minimum 32 credits to get my, uh, get my degree. But that's not the case for everybody. For instance, if you were like a teaching major, okay. Um, you would just have to start over from scratch. They wouldn't take none of your credits. You'd have to go to school another four years all over again. Um, you know, I almost went to Pensacola. Pensacola is accredited. Um, but of course they were a parachurch organization. So my man of God wouldn't have been happy about that. But, uh, but deeper than that, it's, it's, it's the culture. The environment is shaped by fear, guilt, and performance. Your spirituality is measured by how many doors you knock on and how well you can form. I'll tell you a quick story. I remember our bus division going to my bus route in Chicago, which Kaminsky park where the white socks play was on my bus route. So the whole division came to my bus route and we stood outside and got a speaker for a big day. We wanted big numbers and we were preaching street preaching and just getting up, preaching the Romans road on a, on a speaker and then counting everybody that passed by as someone that got say, I never forgot that. Just, just counting the people as, as, as they, as they walk by. And that's just the kind of culture it greets. Yeah, you're exactly right with that. And, and you know, the other thing is you're not encouraged to ask questions. Um, it's this blind, uh, faith that you have to have critical thinking that's seen as rebellion. I saw this at a champion where I went and, and I know you saw this at house Anderson. It's, it's never look at the other side and never ask the question why. Uh, I love that Jesus, when he's teaching the there's constantly people that are coming to him and saying, master, can, can we ask you a question? Teacher, can we ask you a question? And Jesus welcomes those questions. He, he answers them with grace and truth and with love and compassion and with hard facts, but yet he allows questions to be asked. Uh, you know, as you, as we went through this Holy week, I don't know if you read through the final discord with Jesus and his disciples, how many times his disciples would say, Jesus, we don't understand what you're saying. Thomas looks at him and says, how will we know the way, how will we know these things? And, and Peter responds with questions and, and it just goes to show that questions breed growth. And when we are in this area where, uh, we must be obedient to leadership as is taught by obedience by God and not ask any questions, it breeds that, uh, that sense of, of not growing in our faith. Questions breed growth and they are encouraged us to not ask those questions. Exactly. And when, when you have that type of, that type of attitude, can't ask any questions, it's rebellious that, that opens the door for abuse. Okay. When leadership becomes, becomes untouchable, you end up with unchecked power. And we've seen this play out, not just at house Anderson and first Baptist church, but, but ministries across this movement have been shaped by this. That's when you end up with, with scandal. Yeah, absolutely. Brett. Well, you asked me a question. Let me ask you a question. Why do people still choose to go here? Why are people still loyal to this organization after the fall of Jack Scott, after the fall and the, the uncovering of Jack house and David house and everything else? Why do you believe people are still going and choosing to go to this college in this organization? Wow. That's a great question. You know, I think that, I think that people are born into it. You know, the churches and the pastors went there, the parents went there, you know, it's, it's what they know. And to be fair, some go because they're genuinely seeking to serve God and think that this is the best way to do it. And like I said about my pastor, uh, my pastor, Jack house was his, he was his hero. He didn't go. My pastor didn't go to house. And he said, my pastor actually graduated from, uh, Tennessee temple, uh, under Lee Robertson, but Jack house was one of his heroes. And he went to pastor school one, one year and he was hooked on pastor school and Jack house and the bus ministry and Jack house model. And he came back from that. He came back from that first pastor of school. And he just changed everything about his ministry to max Jack house because he says, okay, Jack house is having this much success with this model. Then I need to do this model too. So then he brought it back down to us and we were just, we were just born into it. Yeah. You know, we never want to question people's motives, but what we do want to do is call out the system that there elevates loyalty, uh, to a man over loyalty to Christ. Uh, and, and that confuses legalism with holiness. And we want to be a people who are challenging the status quo, who are asking the hard questions and who are challenging people to think about what they're doing and why they're doing it. And I believe that is what calls out the system and, and calls out what is going on. Exactly. And look, this isn't just about one college. It's about being discerning when choosing any Christian school. Look at the theology, look at the fruit, look at how they handle sin, accountability, truth, things like that. Look at how they handle the word of God, how they interpret it. Yeah. And you know, if you're listening and you've been a part of this and you've come out of this environment, which a lot of our listeners have, uh, this is what we want to say. There's grace, there's freedom, and you're not crazy for asking questions. You're not crazy for being the person that is trying to figure things out. We want you to ask questions. We want you to seek the word of God. We want you to know that there's grace and there's healing that's out there for you. Uh, but it's just recognizing the system that we're in and how we can work forward through that. Right. And listen, if you're thinking about going into the ministry, know this, the Bible is enough. Jesus is enough. You don't need to be molded into somebody else's clone to be faithful. And that's really the whole, the whole message and the whole thrust of, of how's Anderson. When I was there, it may be the same today. I don't know. Uh, but it was just to mold you into a mini Jack house. And look, to be honest, God just wants you to be you. Yeah. He created you specifically and on purpose. He, he molded you. He shaped you. He formed you to be the person you are. And you don't have to be Jack piles in order to be successful in the ministry. You can be just who God made you to be. Yeah. Amen to that, Brad. That's great. Uh, you know, honestly, if we seek a college that equips us to think biblically, to live faithfully and to serve humbly, not one that tries to clone you into a man-made image in the ministry, believe that's what God has for us. And believe that's where we need to be at. When we begin to get to this point where we're looking at what we're at and what we've been through and where we're at, and where we're going is asking us and asking ourselves saying, God, who, where do you want me to be at? Who do you want me to be? Uh, and, and allow God to work in our life. Exactly. And look, if you've been hurt by that world, whether leadership, manipulation, legalism, man, just know that we see you, you are not alone. We've been hurt by them too. And look, healing is possible. So many people, we overcorrect. We throw the baby out with the bath water. Um, when you're hurt, you just want to get away from anything that reminds you of it, but just, just remember healing is possible. Yeah. Brett, we could probably spend another hour talking about this and deep diving in, but I think that's a good place to stop for today. And I think we gave a good, solid foundation of the history of how's Anderson, how it started, the, the people that, that bred through this and, uh, sort of what we're going to wrap up today. Uh, next week, we're going to look at one of the, uh, as you mentioned, your pastor, another one of these pastors that, um, has been an offshoot of Jack house, um, who went up to pastor school and came back and began changing and modeling his church and eventually his college into the way of house Anderson. And then we're going to be looking through some other big people and some other big areas in the independent fundamental Baptist movement over these next little bit. Uh, you know, this is, this is where we can begin to help each other and reach out to those that are around us. Exactly. And listen, if this has helped you, or if you've got a story to share, send us a message, drop us a line. We want to hear your story. We'd love to hear from you. Um, so if you've got a story to share, please, please, please let us know. Yeah. And thanks for listening. And as always, until next time, to God be the glory, great things he has done. I found my new name, found that good grace, found that healing, and the tears fell down my face when I found my beginning that has no ending. I found that second chance, found my best friend, found my forgiveness, found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. I found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for the for freedom podcast.

Auto-generated transcript · 7,920 words. May contain errors.