104. Freedom in Brett's Story Part 1

Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James Saferich and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Thank you for joining in to this special show. Today we are going to be discussing the day in the life of Brett Martin. And so we're excited about trying to let you know a little bit more about his story. And we have appreciated the feedback over the last couple of episodes from our sexual sins and with bringing Brett on. Brett, I hope things are going well with you. How's life in Mississippi doing? Man, things are going great. Things are going really good. Just got done with the gym today. Went and pumped a little iron this morning. So, ready to go. Been listening to... Have you listened to the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast? Yeah, I listened to it all when it came out. I have not listened to it. I'm just now getting into it. Yeah, that's good. It's like addicting stuff. It is. You know, I'm a church history junkie anyways. So, able to look at that and to see what was done wrong helps me out. You know, I start... Just now started as a senior pastor at a church here in Ronda, North Carolina. And so, doing a lot of church history study. Right now, I'm currently... Me and John are reading through this book called How to Build a Healthy Church by Nine Marks, Mark Dever and Paul Alexander. And just a... It's a great refresher read on some things that I've already heard and learned. But putting it all into perspective is a huge thing. The next question, since we talked about the rise and fall of Mars Hill, is... When are we going to have Mark Driscoll on the show? Oh, that's a funny one, though. As a response. Yeah, that's real funny. Let's do it. Let's reach out. That'd be awesome. But, I mean... I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that, Brett. So, tell me how you're... Hey, speaking of podcasts... It's good, man. We are getting set up. My first Sunday is October 1st. So, this will come out after my first Sunday. So, we're looking forward to preaching. Looking forward to getting other people. Met with several pastors. Just getting advice. And guys who have been in my shoes before. You know, this is a new role for me. So, I'm trying to get set up in that area. But, yeah. It's been really good, man. How about you? Man, let me tell you something. Did you get the CPAP machine? Yeah, where I'm going actually today. And, man. I cannot wait to get this thing. I had no idea how much my sleep apnea was affecting me. But so much of my problem is caused by that. And every person that I have talked to have just said that this machine is just like a life-changing thing. Like, I've got my stepbrother. He would go fishing. And he would go fishing just so he could nap. And so, but now he'll get out there on the boat and he can't nap. Because, you know, he slept all night. And I'm tired all the time. And it's because, you know, it's so frustrating to sleep a full seven, eight hours and then be tired the whole day. Let me give you my stats. They said that I stopped breathing 69 times an hour. And my oxygen level dropped to 63%. So, I mean, 80% of the time. Hmm? Yeah, you were almost as bad as me. Yeah. Were you worse? Yeah, I was 70 an hour. 140 for two hours. And my O2 stats dropped into the 40s. Ooh. Ooh. Yeah. Well, I'm getting it today. The lady said, I've seen people. It's a game changer. It's tough to get used to. But the lady told me that she said that she's seen people pronounced dead in the hospital with my stats. So, that was encouraging to hear. You know, that was really, really good. But, hey, speaking of podcasts, you said this earlier. One podcast, and I don't know if our listeners listen to other ones. I hope they do. I hope they're not just listening to us. There's a whole lot better content out there than just us. I know that. I've been listening to Mere Christians podcast. Have you heard of that by Jordan Rayner? I have not. Dude, it's so good. He's got like 200, 300 episodes. It's a lot of episodes. But, basically, he just records Christians in the world. Not pastors, but Christian janitors, Christian school teachers, Christian CEOs of companies. And he just says, hey, you know, how are you able to incorporate Christ into your workplace? Just really, really good stuff. I love his content. If you're looking for a good one, just to, you know, you're riding around and you want to listen to some, I've been listening to those. I don't, I'm not listening to them like every day, but I do, I'll pick one that, a topic I really like. He's done two people that work with Steve Jobs at Apple. And so that was cool for me to listen to because I like, I like Steve Jobs. I like that history of that. But, you know, it's just some good stuff if people are looking for good content out there. I tell you what, and I think me and you have talked about this, but one podcast that I have fell in love with recently was the Haunted Cosmos podcast. Dude, it is, it is, it's just so epic. It is so epic. I mean, you're on there. I mean, it's like, it's like supernatural meets, you know, the church meets a podcast and they talk about all, you know, all this different type of stuff, their episode on the Mothman and Skinwalkers and aliens. But they bring it all back to the Bible and they look at it through a biblical perspective. And it's just awesome content. That's great. All right. Well, hey, we got to get started, man. We've been jabbing for too long. So today we are talking through Brett's story, Brett's life. And you've heard my testimony. You've heard my story. So we're going to do a two, probably a two part episode of this. And Brett's early days, how he grew up, where he went to college at, how that molded him, how that made him to be. And then the next episode we'll do is his, his former years in ministry and how that has shaped him and then leaving legalism and where he's at now. So, Brett, tell us your story. And then as you're talking, I'll just interject a couple of times and throw in some questions and some thoughts. So tell us where you grew up at, how you came to know Jesus, your formidable Christian years. And then we'll discuss that. And then we'll go into your college years. Okay. Okay. So I'm originally from a town in South Mississippi called Macomb, Mississippi. My dad was a barber. My mom owned a dress shop. And my mom and dad have both recently went to be with the Lord. And when I was in the third grade, I remember hearing one of my classmates say that their parents were getting a divorce. And I remember looking over at my best friend, Sean, and I remember telling him, I mean, just, just as, as crystal clear as it happened yesterday. I can remember telling him that my parents will never get divorced. Well, my parents not only did get divorced, but they got divorced that very year. So I was about nine when my parents got divorced. However, right before they got divorced, there was a church in one town over in Magnolia. And this church had a bus ministry and they would come by and they would pick me up and take me to church. It started with them picking me up for vacation Bible school. And they would come pick me up for children's church and on Sunday. Okay. So once my parents got divorced, my mom started going to that church that I was, you know, going to on the bus. It just so happened there was an independent fundamental Baptist church. Now, now me and my mom, we had no idea when the independent fundamental Baptist church was. Okay. We just thought it was, you know, just like any other Baptist church. But me and my mom continued to go there while she was single. And then when she got remarried the first time, we started going to my new stepdad, Southern Baptist Church. And we went to that church for a few years. And during that time, I didn't have much to do with the independent Baptist church until that church started a Christian school. Now, my mom and stepdad wanted me, wanted me to go to that Christian school because they were still taking me across the county, you know, to the, you know, public school I went to when my parents were still married. And this Christian school was a lot closer. So they wanted me to go to this Christian school. Now, what's interesting about this is that my dad was extremely against me going to this Christian school. Like, number one, it was an unaccredited school, which, okay, so my dad had a little bit of sense about him when it comes to that. And listen, my dad even called the fire marshal to get the school shut down. So he called the fire marshal. He come out and did an inspection of the school. And the fire marshal shut the school down. The fire marshal said, no, you're not having the school here. But then the church rallied and they rebuilt the school in another part of the church. And they ended up having the school open on time. But my dad really didn't have a lot of power or say in anything in my life because my mom had full custody of me. I only saw my dad every other weekend, which, you know, I'm an advocate for joint custody in those type situations. So I started going to this Christian school around 12, 13 years old. And for some of our listeners may be familiar with this, it was an ACE school. So for those out in radio land who have been through this type of school, I mean, it was the whole deal. We have the dividers, the gold cards, get the gold and silver stars. You put up your Christian flag when you had to ask a question. You put up your American flag when you had to go score your work. The Bible memorization, ACE and Pudge, Meek Way, the whole nine yards. So when I started going to school at that church, I didn't join that church right away. I still went to church with my mom and stepdad for a little while. But then after a year or so, I started riding the bus to that church and getting rides to that church and became a member. So the dynamic for me was I was the only member of my family going to this IFB church while the rest of my family went to Southern Baptist churches. Well, after that first year and that first summer, after going to school there, 13 years old, they wanted me to go to youth conference. And so we drove 13 hours from Macomb, Mississippi, to Hammond, Indiana, to go to youth conference at First Baptist Church Hammond. And I had never been in a church that big before. Like looking back, I remember being on the mezzanine in that church and looking up and seeing a man walk by me in a gray suit and glasses and me locking eyes with him. And I didn't know it at the time, but I just locked eyes with Jack Hiles and I had no idea who he was. But, you know, this is this is kind of where I began to buy in to this whole movement was at this conference. And this was the conference. And a lot of people in the coming out of the IFB movement, they remember this. This was the conference where the infamous infamous message was preached by Jack Skopp. America, America, you know, because America is all through the Bible. And so Jack Skopp, he come out, he had a burlap sack suit on. When he preached, he showed a three minute abortion video. It was it was horrific. You know, baby's getting pulled apart and I could only watch about half of it. I had to close my eyes. I couldn't watch the whole thing. And then he said, who's going to stand up and say that's not right? And that's when I felt I felt the calling on my life to be a preacher in that moment. And, you know, hindsight's 20, 20. None of us knew what type of person Jack Skopp was. If you don't know who I'm talking about, Google him. You wish you hadn't. And so and I didn't know what type of church I was attending, really. But at the same time, I believe that my calling to the ministry was genuine. You know, nothing happens by an accident. We serve a sovereign God. And so I went down to the altar, you know, because, of course, the altar call was 45 minutes and it wasn't going to stop till everybody was down there. But, you know, I really didn't surrender. I just was kind of I was thinking about it. So what's funny is I get home the very next Sunday and my pastor stands up in the church and he tells everybody, surrender to preach at conference. And I was like, really, I did. I didn't know that. I wish somebody would have told me that I surrendered. But, you know, a couple of weeks in my room, on my bed, I read in my Bible. I eventually did surrender to preach. And it was at this point that I kind of bought into everything that was being taught in that church. I mean, 100 percent. King James Bible only. Hey, man. You know, other Bibles are perversions. They're Satan Bibles. Amen. You know, you know, we will stand at Judgment Day and cast people into hell because we didn't give them a track at a gas station. And their blood will be on our hands as we cast them in to the fires of hell. And, you know, I actually preached that at my mom's church because that's what they were teaching me at this church I was going to. And, you know, we couldn't go to the movie houses because the movie house is the devil. Couldn't go to the picture show. The only superheroes, superheroes were of the devil. They were demonic. Of course, I found a way around that because I watched Batman movies and Batman didn't have any powers. So he was really the only superhero that I could watch. We didn't go trick-or-treating. We went tracker-treating. So we would drive around the neighborhood on a hayride, go door-to-door, say tracker-treat, and people, we would give people a track. We weren't allowed to take any candy. Weren't allowed to dress up. And then we would go back to church and they would give us candy and hot dogs. Now, listen, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not saying I didn't have a good time. I mean, tracker-treat was one of my favorite times of the year. It was a good time. I'm not saying I didn't have a great childhood. I didn't know all these rules and hoops that I was jumping through were extra-biblical rules. I didn't understand that they were preferences that weren't in the Bible. I didn't get that. Now, the dynamic that's different from me to most others that have come out of the IFB was that I was the only member of my family attending the church. So I would go to church in this IFB world, but at home, things were normal. So my family instantly noticed that I was kind of in this cult, but I was oblivious to it. I remember I would drive my cousin to school when I was a teenager, and I would make him listen to the most boring Kyle's tour group music you've ever heard in your life. I mean, he's described it for me later in life as adults, and he just told me that that music was torture for him. But then when he drove me to school, he was like, Brett, now you're going to listen to my music. And, you know, when he would turn on his music, I would tell him to stop and let me out and walk because that's what my pastor told me to do. He said, if somebody plays rock music and they're driving, you tell them to stop and you get out and you walk. And that's what I did because that's what my pastor told me to do. Because that's the devil. It was the devil's music, apparently. So when I was younger, my dad would take me to the movies all the time. But now, you know, when he found out that I believe that going to the movies was a sin because that's what this church was teaching me. He drug me to the movies. And I said this a little bit when the RFP interviewed me. He drug me to the first movie that was on, which was RoboCop 3. And it was the absolute worst movie known to man. I mean, my dad absolutely hated this movie. But he did it just to prove to me that there was nothing wrong with it. You know, my pastor preached against interracial marriage. But listen, it was so bad. And the people were so indoctrinated that when I eventually did go to Howes Anderson, James, I started dating a Canadian girl that was as white as me. But because she was Canadian, there were members of my church who were going to Howes Anderson with me who wouldn't talk to me. Because I was dating a Canadian girl. That's insane. Hey, real quick, Brett, let's back up just a minute. Because there's a, you said a couple of things I want to interject in. So you grew up, you started going to this other church that was, had a bus ministry. And what a lot of people don't know is we have a connection to that church, to that bus ministry. My bus captain in Arkansas, which was in college while I was there, was your bus captain and brought you to church every Sunday. Mark Cantrell, is that correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Brother Mark's awesome. Yeah, he's a fantastic guy. He was the one that broke the mold. He didn't have any of this standards, legalism. No, not at all. Mark would tell you, even back then, Mark would tell you, look, he wasn't a Baptist. He was a Christian. That's right. And he's always had that philosophy. Even when I was a kid, he always had that philosophy. I'm not a Baptist. I'm not this. These denominations aren't right. I'm just a Christian. I'm a Jesus follower. Just saw the earth, love people, which is great. 100%. So, hey, let's go back and talk about that family dynamic a little bit. Your mom and dad were divorced. Your mom was going to a Southern Baptist church with your family, but you were in the same house and going to an independent church. You know, what was that, you know, in your, you know, as your pastor's preaching against these churches, because if it was like the church I grew up in, the Southern Baptist church was just an extension of the Catholic church. You know, there was a pope that told them what to do, and they were no different. How was that family dynamic? Was there clashing? Was there arguments with mom and dad? Was there arguing, or not dad per se, but more of mom? What was that like? My mom really loved the church that I was going to and loved the pastor. They're really, the conflict kind of came in with my extended family. You know, my sister, she was grown by this time and had her own family, but I had uncles and cousins. We were very, very, growing up, we were very, very close to our extended family. We would have Sunday dinners all the time, and my uncles would come over to my mom's dress shop on the plumbing truck, and they would eat lunch there. So we were a very, very tight-knit, you know, extended family. And, you know, when you grow up in the IFP culture, you just think you're better than everybody. Yeah. You know, I thought I had the keys to the kingdom. I had the truth, and I honestly thought I'm better than the rest of my family. They call themselves Baptists. They're not Baptists. I'm the only, we're the only true church. I was taught the church that I was going to was the church that Jesus started. Right. Jesus started independent fundamental Baptist churches, and all these other Southern Baptist churches, they're wrong, you know, because they've got Satan's Bibles, and they're part of the convention that tells them what to preach. And, you know, we weren't, if you know, they had Baptists on the sign, you know, we weren't allowed to go to Southern Baptist churches. If we had to go to another church for some reason, we had to drive an hour down the road to the next independent Baptist church. And so there was an arrogance about me because, you know, I just thought I was better than the rest of my family. And they just needed to get on board with the truth. And they would look at me and just, they could tell that, you know, every time they would come and visit my church, because listen, my pastor, the man could preach. I mean, I'm not going to, he could make people laugh. He could throw it down. He could shuck the corn. He was an excellent preacher, but it's like every time they would come visit him, they would come visit my church. They would come away with something's not right. Something just doesn't, something doesn't add up. Something's not right. And the big thing that really was sticking in their craw was the, you know, no pants on women. That was, that was the big deal. And they would, they would come away from that thing. Well, that's not right. And I would say, I would be an apologist for the church. I was like, oh, well, you know, he doesn't preach it all that often. And, and we've got women that wear pants there and you can go and, you know, and so, you know, that's kind of the dynamic is, is they could tell something was off. Something was wrong every time they came. And I had this arrogance about me that just thought I was, I was just better than them. Yeah. Well, and the last thing I'll, I'll ask as we are talking through this, and then if we go into your college years or wherever you have next, you know, the difference between me and you is I was born into the independent fundamental Baptist world. That's all I knew. So for me, growing up around other people, you know, one of our good friends, Lindsay Holyfield, she was a Southern Baptist. And so we had those dynamics a little bit, but, but for me, I knew that everything was a little, not right, but I was okay with it. And I wasn't a hard dogmatic on all the rules and regulations. And then, so even after going to college, like I knew what I was signing up for, we were going to Bible college. These guys would come in like, oh, I can't believe these are rules. And I would just tell them, listen, you signed up for these things. Like you signed up to come here. You signed up to pay for them. Just follow the rules. Like it's no big deal for me. So that wasn't a big deal for me, but then coming out of independent fundamental Baptist and legalism, seeing freedom and seeing that pendulum swing and other guys, and they would go crazy. That wasn't like it for me, but you made the statement that you were going, you sort of came into this through a bus kid, seeing the things a lot like my wife's story coming into a bus kid, uh, but then drinking the Kool-Aid and then taking it. And like, man, this is, this is truth. This is absolute truth. Like this is how life is. So you drink the Kool-Aid and, uh, you, you went all in and you began to see and hear, um, all these things and you just bought it in as gospel truth. You know, how did that affect, you know, I know we're looking back now, but, but how did that affect the family dynamics? Because again, you're a kid, you're a teenager, you're going through this all the time. You know, you're, you're almost like, you're feeling like you have to be the spiritual leader of your home because you feel like you're more superior in your spirituality than they are because you've got these high standards. Um, I understand that dynamic. And so how did that affect? And then after that question, we'll jump into college stuff. Like I said, it just felt like I had this, like I was supposed to be the savior of my family. Like they didn't have the truth. I had the truth. I said, I walked amongst my family. I love my family, but I walked among them. Like, you know, I'm just their savior. I'm, I'm, I'm the key holder. And, uh, you know, I have, you know, the right Bible, you know, that I'm just, you know, preaching the King James only Bibles. And, you know, my friends would talk to them, but we'd have conversations about, you know, my, uh, pants on women. And I would, you know, go through all these things and just trying to convince them that what we were doing was right. And the whole time they're just kind of rolling their eyes at me. And, uh, and, and not for the most part. I mean, they, they understood that I have, you know, a good heart and that, you know, you know, I had other opportunities to preach. And then when I preached at open door, they would come listen to me preach. So the mom and family, very, very supportive. Um, but they knew, they just knew it was off, you know, you know, they just knew it was, there was something bad off about it. Let me ask you a question. So when y'all would go and people can't see my air quotes, when y'all would go mixed bathing, um, where y'all like us had to wear full blue jeans, full skirts, did y'all ever do that? So, man, my IFB church growing up, now college was completely different. Growing up, we were IFB, we were King James only. But when it came to like the legalism standards, like movies were okay. Mm. Going, I mean, we went to each other's house all the time. We were hanging out, swimming, pants on women were fine. Like they weren't hardcore in the skirts at the time. Now they are, but they weren't then. Um, so it was a very relaxed independent Baptist church. I'll tell you like this. Because I did not know or hear the name Jack Howes until I was a senior in high school. Wow. So, so we were independent and we were fundamental and we were Baptist, but we weren't to the extent of what you would understand or think of as an independent fundamental Baptist church. Um, I remember my pastor, maybe eighth or ninth grade, he went to a sort of Lord conference at, um, God's white and walk town and came back with a little bit more of a independent skew to it. Began throwing out pre-millennial, uh, pre-trib terminology for the first time. Well, we definitely had, we were hardcore from the beginning. Like I said, we, we swam in blue jeans and the girls wore culottes and skirts swimming. Um, so def, we were definitely hardcore from the beginning. All right, Brett. So we, let's go ahead and jump in and talk about, um, all right. You, you went, you surrendered to the call to preach. You've been preaching a little bit, you know, we're good IFB church, go to Bible college. Um, you surrendered at first Baptist. I mean, that's just, you got to go there, right? I mean, if you're not going there, you're not, you're really not going to be an effective pastor. That's it. That, you know, that's where I had to go. Yeah. So tell us about that experience. So growing up, I was a children's director, uh, as a teenager and I would preach children's church at our church and I was a bus captain. Um, and then because it was an AC school, I got done with high school a year early. So I graduated high school when I was 16. Um, but because I wasn't 18 yet, my dad wouldn't legally let me go off to college. And so I had to, uh, I had to go to community college because I wasn't legally old enough to leave yet. And my dad did not want me going off to Chicago to go to school because of course, like you said, I, I surrendered at house Anderson at first Baptist. That's where I want to go to college. Well, my second stepdad by this time, he convinced my dad the next year. So I went to a year of community college 17 now, still not old enough to legally go. But my second stepdad, uh, he convinced my dad to give me permission to go to college. And so off the house Anderson, I went now don't get me wrong. I had fun in college. I really, really did. Um, yeah, the rules were a pain and ridiculous, but you know, I had friendships there that still lasts to this lasted to this day. Um, but you know, let me tell you what my biggest problem with house Anderson is. And that is at house Anderson, you're not there to learn. You're there to service their ministries. I remember when I got to house Anderson, I heard a message on tape because I was a member of the Highlander club. And so I got an audio tape every month. So for those out there who were a member of the, the Highlander club, I see you. Uh, but it was Jack house preaching a message and man, he said, and I'll never forget it. I'll never forget what he said. This is a statement he made. And it's a famous statement that Jack house used to say. He used to say, I will never use my people to build my ministry, but I will use my ministry to build my people. And looking back, that was the biggest lie that I've ever heard in my life, because that whole ministry and college is built on using people to grow that ministry. Okay. I was grown, but you know, maybe you have some experience of this when it comes to Bible college. I wasn't, I wasn't an adult there. We were treated like teenagers at camp and the, those poor girls, I felt so sorry for him because, you know, from time to time I could leave the campus and get a break. I could leave anytime I wanted to, but those girls, they weren't allowed to leave campus. They had to stay there. And, and it's like, I wasn't there to learn. I was there to work in the bus ministry. That's why I was there. No, the first, you know, couple routes that I was on my first semester were some guys that I had that were from my home church and man, I had a really good time with them. And I have had some experience in children's church of being a bus captain and I was good at it. So I became a second semester freshman bus captain at first Baptist Hammond. And, and listen, that's a rare, rare thing, but my life became my weekend ministry. You wake up, you go to class and you go to work, get home after midnight and you've got no time to study. You've got no time to, you know, to do any of your schoolwork. You've got no time to do your assignments. And then on the weekends, you're in Chicago all weekend doing bus ministry every single day. And you're ostracized and you're mocked mercilessly if you don't work in the ministry. And then I had a bus route where I had city Baptist kids on my bus route. Okay. So first Baptist Hammond, I'm sure it's still the same. It may not be, but this is the way it was at the time. First Baptist Hammond has two Christian schools. You've got Hammond Baptist for the church kids. And then you've got city Baptist for the non-white bus kids, because God forbid they all go to the same school. So I had students on my bus route in South Chicago, which my route was from Kaminsky Park where the White Sox played, the 51st street, and then from Halstead to the Dan Ryan. That, so, you know, I was the bus captain for the White Sox. And so I had city Baptist students on my route. So as an 18 year old bus college student at Hiles Anderson, I had to make sure that I had that their tuition was paid. And that meant that I was expected to go out on my free time, which I don't know where I would find this said free time. But I was supposed to go out and fundraise their tuition because they didn't pay it. And if they couldn't pay it or I couldn't raise it, then I had to pay it. And I remember going to my division leader and asking him, what am I supposed to do? And while it wasn't explicitly spoken, it was highly, highly implied that I pay their tuition with my tuition money. So I entered the financial office at Hiles Anderson. I went and there's this thing where you can defer a semester's payment. So I got my first semesters deferred. Now, listen, my first semester, I got good grades. I got my 14 credits for my semester. But then the second semester, I went into the financial office and I deferred my payment so I could take my tuition money and pay the school bill for City Baptist. OK, so I did that. And what that did is it put me in a financial hole that I would never get out of. And I would lose semester after semester after semester because I couldn't pay my school bill. Two and a half years, I had 14 credits. Now, listen, I passed every class. I passed every single one of them. But because I was in this financial hole, because I was expected to pay the school bill of the kids on my route, I never got any more credits at Hiles Anderson. Now, here's how I got kicked out of Hiles Anderson. My roommate brought now there's a whole lot of stuff that went down, but that's another episode. But how I got kicked out was my roommate brought in a portable TV, which was a big no-no. And he invited other guys from the dorm to watch said TV, which was stupid. And just because I was in the room and didn't say anything, I didn't have the TV. I didn't watch the TV. I'm just not a snitch. And because I didn't tell on him that he had the TV, even though it wasn't mine, I didn't watch it. I got expelled for it. So I went home and I quit the ministry. And man, I said, man, I'm done being a preacher. But I never lost my faith. You know, I might not have went to church faithfully, but I can honestly say that I never lost my faith in God. But I was done with the ministry. And my dad could not have been happier, not because I was out of the ministry, but because I was home. My dad put me in a camper behind his house and I moved in. I had one job working in a plastic company. That didn't work out. I got a job selling rainbow vacuum cleaners. And I was a pretty good salesman because I was a preacher. And, you know, I could sell two or three sales a week and make eight to twelve hundred dollars tax free. Well, at least I thought it was tax free. You know, I'm working. I'm working 10 hours a week, pulling in eight hundred, twelve hundred dollars a week, working 10 hours. And I was living a good life. And I did that for six months or more. And then just out of the blue one day, the Holy Spirit began to work on my heart. And I honestly felt like I was quenching the Spirit's call and he wasn't going to talk to me anymore. And that thought that the Holy Spirit would stop talking to me, it scared me. And I remember that night I was under immense conviction. And it was midnight. It was late. I couldn't call anybody. I couldn't text anybody. But I had to do something. So I got out a piece of paper and I wrote a letter to my old youth pastor, who at this point was an hour away over in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. He was a youth pastor over at Central Baptist Church, Hattiesburg under Jerry George. And my youth pastor's name was Kim Lowry. And I wrote a letter to Brother Kim and I poured my heart out to him. And I told him I was scared. I didn't know what to do. I needed help. And I had one envelope and one stamp. And I put that letter in the mailbox. Three days later, Brother Kim called me. He said, come out and spend the day with me tomorrow. I drove to Hattiesburg the next day, met him in his office. We talked. We went to lunch. We talked. Drove around, ran errands. We talked. He brought me home, fed me supper that night with his family. We talked. And when it was all over, I was convinced that I needed to go back to school. So I need to continue my pursuit of being a preacher. And he had heard about Tri-State Baptist College, which is in Walls, Mississippi. And it's basically a suburb of Memphis, Tennessee, that Horn Lake, South Haven area. So I made a commitment that when the summer was over, I was going back to school. And it just so happened my best friend, he's a little younger than me, but my best friend, Eric Reagan, one of my best friends in the world, is like my brother. He graduated high school at the same time. So we both went to Tri-State. So now listen. Let's pause right there. You know, as we've heard that part of Hal's Anderson, if you're like me, this is the second time I've heard that. I've been studying through Acts 20 in preparation of last week and this week coming up of preaching. And Paul says he was bound by the spirit. He was compelled by the spirit that he had to go and do what he was going to do. And there is an immense amount of freedom when we're bound by the spirit. But when we're bound by man to do things, it is incredible the amount of oppression and psychological warfare that can go on when man binds us by their own legalism, their own standards. Man, to be able to think that I would have to pay for my kids on my bus route when I was in Arkansas for them to go to Christian school and pay my bill would be incredible. And I applaud you that you did that. You made a difference in some of those kids' life. But that should have never happened. And that was a huge stretch of overreach. It should not have been my responsibility. Absolutely not. No, absolutely not. Now, listen, all this time, I'm still 100% independent fundamental Baptist. I have no idea what legalism is. I have no idea that these false rules and standards or preferences that are being taught as doctrine. I had no clue of any of this. At one point, I leave Tri-State. But then I come back and I finish. And this is where I met my wife. We got Emily. We got married. She graduated a year before me. And look, listen, I got Tri-State stories, too. But like I said, that's another episode. But for those of you who don't know Tri-State, because it's a smaller school, maybe 30 or 40 students. It is like a mini Hiles Anderson, like Matt Dudley said. Me and we all went to the same college there at Tri-State. I mean, we had Carl Hatch come and preach. We had Phil Kidd every year come and preach. And it's so weird because at Hiles Anderson, Phil Kidd was like taboo. Okay. And then at this new college, Phil Kidd would come and preach a revival every year. And it's like at Hiles Anderson, we would pass around Phil Kidd tapes in the shadows and under tables like we were dealing coke. But then you'd come to Tri-State. He's preaching revival. But Tri-State was another school that was all about their weekend ministry. But man, I put my nose to the grindstone. I'm like, I'm graduating. I'm getting done. I'm finished. I want to get out in the ministry. And so I graduated from Bible college. Now, my pastor had already said, look, if you don't get a full time offer, you just get part time offers. I can pay you part time. Come back and work for me. And so I thought that God's will for me was to do what my pastor told me to do. So I got a lot of part time offers. I graduated, but nothing full time. So I went back to my home church to be on staff at my home church. And this is where things really began to change for me. I had a great relationship growing up with my pastor. Great relationship. Great pastor to me growing up. And working for the man was an absolute nightmare. And we'll save that story for the next episode. Awesome. Well, I hope you've enjoyed today. And I think it's fitting, Brett, to end with our old sign off today. And I think it's very fitting for that. And so until next time, to God, not the pastor, be the glory. Amen. I found my new name. I found that good grace. I found that healing. And the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning. That has no ending. I found that second chance. I found my best friend. I found my forgiveness. I found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. I found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the For Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for the For Freedom Podcast. For Freedom Podcast.

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