92. Freedom in Mental Health Part 1

Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, John Holyfield and James Safer. Welcome back everybody to the For Freedom Podcast. I am your host, John Holyfield, along with your other host, James Safer. And we are here in the month of May with our subject in the month of May. We've covered, James, what is freedom and parenting, and freedom and anxiety. Anxiety, yes. And now we are jumping into May is considered Mental Illness Awareness Month. Mental Health. Mental Health, sorry, Mental Health Awareness Month. Yes. So we are going to discuss over the next couple of weeks in May on mental illness, what that looks like. Is there help for it? Is there hope for it? We've got at least one interview lined up. We're working on a second interview. We're going to try to work it in in May as well. If not, it may be the first of June. And then we are, yeah. So yeah, we're going to look at a mental illness and mental health from a biblical framework, a biblical worldview. But before we get into that, James, how have you been? Doing well, John. It's been... And I'm preaching this coming Sunday on Mother's Day for our families, for being able to honor our parents, our moms that day. We've got graduation Sunday coming up. We just filled up, John, our camp for our youth. We have all of our camp spots filled. We've got four teenagers that don't really attend our church regularly. Signed up. I had a parent last night come up to me, and they've been coming to youth for the last couple of weeks and just enjoying it. We've been talking through worry a little bit on Wednesday night with youth, and she said they've been enjoying it. And so they are planning on coming to camp with us. And so it's a great time for us to be able to influence them a little bit. And just finished up our football season. We finished three and five and was able to honor our football players last week. And so it's been fun. And coming to the close of our school year, my kids have, I think, 12 days of school left. And so they're getting ready for summer break. We'll be going to New Orleans in June for the convention. And just such a busy summer, our summers are always slam-packed. And so we are looking forward to it and spending time with our family and with our teenagers. And so it's going to be great. John, how about you? Been doing good. April, we had birthdays in our house in April, so did a lot of things there. And the church has been doing well, and they just voted to take me on another day. Many of you guys know that I'm bivocational, and so the church has voted to take me on an extra day at the church so that my schedule changed a little bit. So I'm one more day working at the church, one less day working at my secular job. So that's been a good time and happy about that. But yeah, things have been going great and excited to get into this subject. This is a subject that I'm passionate about and also want to show compassion to this. I mean, James and I wanted to cover this because of the month of May being National Mental Health Awareness Day or Mental Health Awareness Month. And we are the subject of our podcast to speak into the realm of mental health and to that. And so we wanted to cover this and understanding that trying to help us think critically about all things. We should think critically about all things, and especially this. And I feel like this is probably the one area where you find a lot less people willing to think critically in. And we are by no means people who totally say that people don't struggle with mental issues at all. We, in fact, our desire to become biblical counselors are very much in the vein of understanding that people struggle with things like this. So where are we going to go with this? We'll see. This could be a little bit of a mess, but we're going to try to jump into it. But I have a couple articles in front of me that I want to look at. I want to start off with – this is an article. This is not a biblical worldview. I want to sort of discern a little bit of a biblical worldview with a secular worldview. And this is an article from psychiatry.org titled, What is Mental Illness? And so I'm going to go through some things I highlighted in this article. But I'm going to point out some things where I find disagreement. But I'm going to point out some things where I would – you know, I very much so agree to help you sort of think through some of these things of those of us that have a sound theology, a biblical theology, and this subject. I have seen people that go to the Bible and develop a robust theology that they seem to, like, check that theology at the door a lot of times when it comes to mental issues and mental health because they don't deem it qualified. That that's only supposed to be left to the quote-unquote professionals. So let's look at this. Mental illnesses – this is the definition it gives about mental illness. Mental illnesses are health conditions. I sort of highlighted that word health conditions involving changes in emotion, thinking, or behavior, or a combination of these. Mental illnesses can be associated with distress and or problems functioning in social work or family activities. And I think this is interesting because this is important to remember of the ideal – the idea that is coming here, the concept, is that what you're – what is being pushed and what they're wanting you to accept is that mental illness – it's called an illness. Mental health is a health condition. It's an idea of trying to normalize and get everybody to be on the same page that things that are going on mentally, as they say, is on the same level as medical conditions with your body. Okay? Now, this is – again, some of this stuff I'm going to agree with. Some of this stuff I want to challenge you to think about. It also says mental illness is a medical problem, just like heart disease or diabetes. Okay? I want to refer – there's a guy who is in the biblical counseling world. He's a medical doctor. His name is Dr. Charles Hodges. Dr. Charles Hodges wrote a book called Good Mood, Bad Mood, and it is a book that sort of looks at the subject of bipolar disorder. He writes in here as a medical doctor, he says that a definition of disease, a medical illness, is this. Here's the definition. A pathological change in the body must be objective. A disorder of structure or function that produces specific signs or symptoms that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury. That is the definition of a medical illness. Now, understand that definition. A pathological change must be objective. Basically this. It is a change in the body that is obstructing things, that is disordering things, that you can run an objective test and discern. Right? You can take a blood culture. You can take a blood sample. You can take a what they call a lot of times biopsy, and you can determine objectively, hey, this is what's going on. Now, that's the definition of a medical illness. Now, the surgeon general says that a mental illness is difficult to diagnose because there is no pathological change in the body. Now, what I'm trying to say is this. The thing we have to be careful of being – listen, I'm using the terms. I'm not wholesale rejecting. We need to be careful of being – we need to be careful of and thinking through is that when it comes to the medical illness and the mental illness, is there a pathological objective reason that we can point to for the illness? For the quote-unquote disordered thing that is going on. And when it comes to what has been wholesale accepted as mental illness, the majority of the time there is not. And I want you to think about that. I want you to think about that. They go on to decide mental health involves effective functioning and daily activities resulting in productive activities, healthy relationships, ability to adapt to change and cope with adversity. Here's a little bit of pushback on that, James, a little bit of pushback. Here's the pushback. What's the objective standard of who decides what's normal in these three areas? Productive activities, healthy relationships, the ability to adapt to change and cope with adversity? Well, either that person or the doctor. But what objective standard are they using to determine what is normal? It's their own idea of it. It's their own reasoning in life. And so this can be very concerning to me because it's not objective. It's very actually subjective. Yeah. And quite honestly, I think if you study this subject as it's gone through history, you find that this has changed a lot as times have changed. Yeah. What used to be considered productive activities? No longer. It's very, very different to now than what is considered productive activities. What is used to be considered healthy relationships may not be considered healthy relationships anymore. Ability to adapt to change and cope with adversity, very interesting too. Mental illness refers collectively. Go ahead, James. Yeah. Yeah. Change and cope with adversity. The only thing I would push back a little bit on that is if at one time you were able to, you know, able to change, able to cope with things, and now all of a sudden you are getting bogged down with the ability to change. Maybe it was, you know, I think it's a postpartum depression. We're going to talk about it. That's one of the definitions there that we're going to look at. You know, I've got someone who there's a medical, you know, a mom's natural response to a baby is to love, cherish, and care for that baby. And all of a sudden they have the baby and they go through this separation of postpartum where they don't want to have anything to do with that child. Well, that's adversity that's coming in their life that is measurable, that's seen, that can be diagnosed, that can be worked on. And so I believe there are some areas where this is measurable, but there's also areas where it's tough to measure and it's tough to see. I'm going to push back on your pushback. Go ahead. All right. All right. So push back a little bit, son. Push back. All right. Postpartum depression. Okay. Postpartum depression has been a label that has been given to what you just said. A lady has a child and experiences a flood of emotions, emotions that would seem like this is not normal. Why am I having these thoughts? Sometimes lasting a very long time after the baby's born. And struggle. Mm-hmm. I believe that the whole label postpartum depression has been identified and labeled because of a worldview issue. Mainly a worldview issue of where we don't understand, a worldview issue where there's no concept of the biblical worldview of Genesis 3. Mm-hmm. The fall. What is Genesis 3? In the fall, what happens in Genesis 3 with a mother and childbearing? It says that there will be multiplied great sorrow and childbearing. Yeah. Yeah. In the old days, they used to categorize postpartum depression like this. They used to say this, the baby blues. You ever heard that? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. The baby blues. Because they just recognized it as that was not disordered. It was normal. It happens. And I think a biblical worldview recognizes that postpartum depression is nothing wrong with the mother. It's actually part of the sorrow that goes along with childbirth. Yeah. And there are things like, and you did mention, you said there's some things that you can help with that and that kind of thing. But again, I think that falls into the line of where they struggled to categorize a biblical worldview of suffering and the fall with what they're setting a bar, a subjective bar of what's supposed to be like, okay, you have the baby. You should be acting normal after month nine. Yeah. After you stop nursing the baby, the mom should be fine. Yeah. Why? Why? You know, and yes, I think it can be a little bit tricky because some of it can be physiological. Some of it can be spiritual. But I think to sit there and label one or the other, I think that you're really missing the point. That that specific issue really has to do with the biblical worldview of sorrow. I don't think a mother should feel bad about experiencing that. But I think that a mother should try to find hope and help within sisters in the body of Christ or family. But again, that's a sidetrack. I know that we – and this is going to happen probably a lot. I mean, I don't know if we're going to get through this. But it refers collectively – mental illness refers collectively, according to this article, to all diagnosable mental disorders. Now, I have a little issue with mental – with the term disorder, but we'll get to that. And it says that these involve significant changes in thinking, emotion, and or behavior, distress, and or problems functioning in social work or family activities. And again, my pushback is this. Who's objectively saying what's normal? Yeah. You know, don't you think that even what may be normal in this region of the country would not be normal in another region of the country or even the world? It says that mental health can be influenced by physical health. Now, I totally agree with that. Mm-hmm. I totally agree with that, James. Mental health can be influenced by physical health. There is a mind-body connection that is actually – that's part of a biblical worldview, that God created this body and soul. Yeah. Mental illness is a medical – reiterate that again. Hit it again. Mental illness is a medical condition, just like heart disease or diabetes. And here's my pushback. Just listen. Here's my concern. Can you unequivocally diagnose heart disease? Yes. Yes. Can you take blood tests and unequivocally diagnose diabetes? Yes. When you look at what is known as the diagnostic and statistical manual, which they've had five editions so far and continue to work on the others, what the criteria they use, their standards of diagnosing these things are not pathological. It's not a medical – it's not a medical – a scientific pathology. It's very subjective. Mm-hmm. It's very up and down. And it changes every time. So to equate the two, heart disease, diabetes, and some of the mental illnesses, as they say, hmm. I just – I want you to think about that critically. They had this line too. Three-fourths of all mental illness begins by age 24. I thought that was just an interesting thing. I just – hmm. I wonder why. I don't have an opinion on why. I just – that's interesting to me. It has a section here about diagnosis. If that depressed mood – talking about depression – continues to cause distress or gets in the way of normal functioning, the person may benefit from professional care. Biblical worldview. Professionals is because the church has really dropped the ball. Yeah. Because God has given us His Word. God has given us the Holy Spirit. And God has given us the church. And James, we and you just had a conversation recording for another podcast about the one-anothers. Imagine if those one-anothers were being practiced with people. Yeah. And the very next statement in this article says, family or friends may recognize changes or problems that a person doesn't see in themselves. And the pushback that I would say on this as a positive of this is, for me personally, eight years ago, when I came back to North Carolina and I was looking for work and providing for my family, I went and got a job at Chipotle working for a buddy of ours named Matt Faggart. And Matt looked at me and he said – in my interview, he said, man, he said, you're not the same. You're not the same energetic, perky James that I'm used to being around. But he thought maybe you're just getting older. You know, you calmed down a little bit. And then my wife started noticing some things and she said, James, you probably need to go and get some things looked at. And so I went to a doctor and come to find out, they diagnosed me with sleep apnea. And so because I was diagnosed with a medical condition of sleep apnea, which I stopped breathing, I think it was 145 times in two hours. They pronounced people dead in the hospital with the oxygen levels that I had because it was verifiable. There was tests that could be taken. But why was this even noticed? Because friends and family noticed that was something different with me. I came in. I didn't even tell Matt that I had got on a sleep machine. I came in after using it for a couple of days, came into work, and he's like, dude, the old James is back. What's going on? Like you've got energy. You're crazy. You're excited to be around life again. Why is this? Hey, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. Thing that changed my life. And it was because family and friends noticed something. And then I went to the doctor and they were able to verify something that in my life that needed changed. And it was a very, very great thing. But it was because, again, there were some people that are around me that cared for me, that loved me. Going back to the church, going back to what you just said, people that are around that love and care for me, noticed some things that were different. And said, hey, we may need to get some things looked at. Yeah. A hundred percent. In fact, the next thing it says that I was going to agree with was depressive symptoms can relate to a thyroid condition. Absolutely it can. Therefore, a mental health diagnosis often involves a full health evaluation, including a physical exam that may include blood work and or neurological tests. I hundred percent agree with this. Yeah. But be careful about saying that because that happens, you have the mental illness. No, what's actually going on is you have a medical pathology and a medical illness going on that affects the mind, body, soul connection. Yeah. The body is affecting your soul, your mental state. And I don't know if you read this. I don't know if you read the sentence, but I think the first part of that sentence was great. Some mental illnesses can relate or mimic a medical condition. Yeah. And by mimicking it, there needs to be a diagnosis to see is there an actual medical condition that is involving here that is saying, hey, I got to get this thing checked out. And Dr. Charles Hodges actually gives us a list of possible things where you have a legitimate medical condition that is affecting your mood or your mental state. He gives here, and you know, what's the first one he says? It's sleep apnea. It's sleep apnea. You have to have – listen, the way God created your bodies, we have to have at least two hours of REM sleep. Rapid eye movement sleep is that deep sleep that recharges you, that gets you going. And if you're not getting REM sleep at all, you may be sleeping. But I actually had a physician, a doctor, tell me because I have sleep apnea as well, and James encouraged me to go get tested. John doesn't treat it because he's not the smartest tool in the shed. Yeah, I struggle with the CPAP machine. But I did the same thing, and he – my medical doctor explained to me, he said, if you're not never getting to REM sleep, you may sleep all through the night. But you're going to feel like the next day like you did an all-nighter because that's how important REM sleep is to you. It's as if you stayed up the whole time. So sleep apnea is one that can affect your mental state because if you are not getting sleep, you can become irritable. You can become – your mood can be depressive. A disorder called Cushing's disorder. A medical condition called lupus. Hyperthyroidism. These are all different medical situations that actually have been proven that they affect your mental state, your mood. Okay. And friends – Go ahead. You're breaking up a little bit, James. Who are? What was that? You're breaking up a little bit. Say that again. Oh. So – and these are things that friends and family – my internet's going weird today. These are things that are noticeable by friends and family. And if we've got a close relationship with the church, with friends and family, they're going to be noticing some things that may not be right in our body, that may not be right in who we are. And can refer us to someone who can help us. And then that person can say, hey, you may need to go and see a professional. So you may need to go see your medical doctor about this to get this thing under control. They may be able to diagnose it a little bit better in your area and in your life. Yeah. So this next sentence I wanted to talk about, and Charles Hodges addressed as well in another article that he wrote on mental illness and compassion. It says, the stigma around mental illness and treatment prevents many people from seeking needed treatment. Mm-hmm. I don't disagree with that. In fact, Charles Hodges addresses the subject as it is – as it pertains to the church. And he writes this, Dr. Charles Hodges. He says, the central thought is that the church as a whole stigmatizes those who have been diagnosed or labeled with mental illness as defined by the DSM. We are told that a smaller part of the church wants to ascribe all such labels as to the sin of the struggler. And so I want to address these two because I agree with – I think that there is a problem with the stigma of this. So stigma is sort of like a marker or identifying marker that can sort of embarrass, sort of like the scarlet letter of the old novel. And it stigmatizes someone. And I agree that's a problem. Now, here's where I'm going to give some pushback to the secular mental health community, and that is this. They need to own up to their own problem of stigmatizing this. Now, after I say that, let me go back to the church. The church has got to do better as well. Right. Church, yes. And James, me and you especially in the backgrounds that we've come from out of fundamentalism have seen how the church has stigmatized this and done very, very – a whole lot of damage in this area. But I think that while the church needs to work at this, and has been, I also think the medical community or the mental health community actually – psychiatry, psychology, that world does it as well. I think it stigmatizes. Because when you put the label of disorder on someone, you have just stigmatized them because now you have labeled them, there's something wrong with them. Right. Exactly. And I think that's a problem. 100% agree. I think that's a problem. I'm not big – I do not like psychological labels, and I'll tell you why. The reason I don't like psychological labels is twofold. The reason I don't like psychological labels is because as a Christian with a biblical worldview, I believe it becomes an identity marker that now they are viewing their identity. I read this in a booklet I think it's by our friend Christine Chappell and said this. Said this that, you know, it's interesting if they're trying to connect medical illness with mental illness. But yet how much mental illness has become so identity-identifying as opposed to someone who has a medical illness. For example, you never hear somebody say, I am cancer. Yeah. But have you ever heard somebody say that I'm bipolar? Yeah. What have they just done? They've taken the medical diagnosis of bipolar disorder and made it their identity. That's number one reason. Number two reason, and we're going to wrap up today. The reason I don't like it is because of the term disorder. Because I believe that it infringes upon the fact that you are created in God's image. And while, yes, we have a fallen, sinful nature, we have the effects of the fall and sin upon us, God can redeem that, and God can transform you, and you are not disordered. You are disordered in the fact of the fall has affected you. But that disorder is not a permanent label for you. For instance, an example is post-traumatic stress disorder. I think post-traumatic stress is real. I think people struggle with it. It is what happens whenever you experience trauma. I do not believe it's a disorder because I believe it is exactly how God created your brain to react to things that are products of the fall. So I push back against those two things. We're going to break from there. But I want to give you some—I hope that I'm coming across, and James is coming across today, with compassion. That we do have a heart, and we have a love for and compassion for those who struggle mentally. And that we believe that the Bible provides a sufficient hope and help for those that are struggling. And we want to give, in the next episode, some ways from 1 Thessalonians how we can do that. And so come back next week, and we'll talk through that. And I hope it can be a help to you. But until next time, guys, to God be the glory. I found my new name. I found that good grace. I found that healing. And the tears fell down my face when I found my beginning that has no ending. I found that second chance. I found my best friend. I found my forgiveness. I found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. I found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the For Freedom podcast. If you enjoyed the content of the podcast, please do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing the podcast on whatever podcast platform you listen to. 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