199. Allie Breazeale and Her Time At Commonwealth Bible College

Welcome back to the For Freedom podcast. Family, we are glad to have you here today with us. We're excited about the episode that we have today for you. It's going to be an awesome one. I know you're going to enjoy it, and I know that it's going to be a great time. Before we get started, Brett is not able to be on the intro part of the episode. He's part of the actual episode. He got sick at the time of the recording of our intro banter, and we are going to be praying for him. He's just not feeling well right now. But today, we are two weeks away from Christmas. If you haven't done your Christmas shopping, now would be a time to start heading out and doing some shopping. We have some great things going on at our For Freedom Cigar Company, 1689cigars, backslash For Freedom Cigars. We've got our Experience Box. Lots of those have been sold. We've only got a few left of those. Comes with each one of our cigars, a bag of coffee, and a bar of soap. That coffee goes to support missions in Nicaragua. Church planter's down there, and we are excited about that. We're excited about what the Lord is doing down there. Me and Brett have an opportunity to lead a group down in just a couple of months. We'll be down there in July, and we'll have a group down there to do a pastor's conference, also some distribution stuff. So it's going to be a great time, and it's a great way for you to partner with us in that and supporting that ministry down there at United Christian Missions. We've got our Israel trip just right around the corner. I think we've got like a couple of days left to sign up if you haven't signed up and you want to go January 30th through February 7th. Me and Brett are excited about that. It's going to be a great time, and so hopefully you will join us and be praying for us as we go. We've got a full group that's going. And then we've got as well the convention coming up in June, and just a great time there if you'll be in Orlando or the area, and we know you'll enjoy that as we get together as well. We do want to just transition to the episode today. We've got Allie. Brett's going to talk a little bit about her and how they know each other. But what a great interview that we had today, and I'm looking forward to what we have to share over the next couple of weeks. We've got just a couple weeks left in the year, and then we'll take a break in January. But we're going to share one of our top performed episodes on Christmas Day, and so hopefully you will tune in to that. Hey, if you haven't had a chance, I've been putting out some AI music on iTunes and Spotify. I've got several different albums out, about 30-something songs right now. Just came out with a new Conspiracy album. I have really enjoyed that, and I've got about 13 or 14 more that should come out by the end of the year. And so just, hey, it's been fun. It's been a great time just to produce those and work with AI-generated stuff. And so hopefully you'll go over and check that out. You can just Google my name or search my name in iTunes and Spotify, and you'll see all the information there. It's also on our Facebook page as well. And last but not least, if you haven't had a chance to purchase my book, our newest book, From Brokenness to Freedom, please go on and check that out. I know several of you have reached out for one of those free copies. I do only have just a couple of those left. And so if you'd like to have a copy of that for free, all you've got to do is reach out to me, and I can get one in the mail. Once they get in, I've had to order a special order of that. Once they get in, I'll be able to drop that in the mail for you. And so if you want one of those, please reach out through Direct Messenger. We are so thankful for each and every one of you listening. This last year has been a great year for us. And thank you for sharing this with your friends and family and those that are in need of help through the gospel. And so without further ado, we're going to jump right into our episode today. Thank you for listening, and I hope you have a wonderful day. For freedom, you set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. I ain't saved by dress codes, not by what I eat. I'm covered in the righteousness, washed from head to feet. No tally of tradition, no man-made code. Blood bought my freedom, now I ride that road. They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise. But my praise still ascends past the legalist cries. Christ plus nothing, that's the real math. So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path. He sat with sinners, I'm sitting with saints. Sipping grace from the bottle, no room for fakes. I light one for liberty, toast to the king. Every ash a sermon, death has lost its sting. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Cigars and victory justified, released. Let grace begin. For freedom, he set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace. Now here are your hosts, James Seyfried and Brett Martin. Well, I am proud to introduce Allie Brazil, who I know because we grew into church together and kind of was in the bus ministry together. And let me tell you something about Allie. Right now, you know, we live like our cities are like right beside each other. So I'm in Carthage and she's over here in Philadelphia. And when I, like I'm having vacation Bible school. So I've been out of the bus ministry for a while. So it's like, man, I want to sing this song, but I can't remember the words to it. So I'll text Allie and I'll be like, Allie, what are the words to this song? And a few minutes later, she'll like, she'll text me the whole song. And I'll be like, yes, I remember. And then I'll be like, and then I'll text back, what were the hand motions again? And then she'll tell me the hand motions because like she was like bus ministry extraordinaire. She was good with those kids. That's what I remember about you, Allie. Just, but the, how good you were with that. And then of course you were my helper in children's church, in the church that we grew up in. And so when I was assistant pastor there, you were helping me in children's church. And so, like I said, I know your parents and your whole family. And so, you know, so I'm just, how are you doing? I'm glad to see you. I'm glad you're on the podcast. How are you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing great. It's an honor to be on today. Really looking forward to talking to you guys about my experience with Commonwealth. Yeah, like he said, me and Brett grew up together. When I say grew up together, he's older than me, obviously. Yeah, I'm older than you. But I did do a lot of hands-on church ministry with Brett. Extraordinary guy. He taught me a lot of the things that I know about, you know, children's ministry. And I really feel like, you know, his influence has really helped me in a lot of different areas through life. But yeah, I mean, not only do, you know, we went to church together and worked all the ministry together. We actually lived like two miles from each other. I could walk to his house and babysit his kids when I was growing up. So it was... In fact, your mother babysat me. Yes. When I was a kid. And that's something that we don't need to forget. Your mom, she had this story about me writing on the walls or something. Yep. She would tell everybody about how I drew on her walls with crayons and stuff. And I'm pretty sure your dad kept my dad's hair for a while, too. Like, there's a lot of connections there. Oh, exactly. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, well, I'll tell you what. I'll go ahead and kick us off. Tell us a little bit about your background. Tell us about yourself, where you grew up at, and then from that, go into what drew you to Commonwealth. Okay. I grew up at the same church as Brett at Open Door in Summit, Mississippi, under the leadership of, at the time it was Dennis Walker, whenever I went to Commonwealth. Grew up doing bus ministry, children's ministry, sang in the choir, played piano in church. Pretty much, you know, something had to be done. I did it. I think I started, like, in the IFP church when I was probably five or six, and that was pretty much all I've ever known. Went to the church school there, graduated from the church school. Then, I don't know if y'all, I know Brett does, I don't know if you know much about Smite Camp with Brother Jerry. Yeah, I did that as a teenager. Ended up on the Blitz team for three summers, and my last summer there, I was graduating high school, and we had a Commonwealth group come sing at Smite Camp, and they invited us on the Blitz team to come up to Kentucky and do their, you know, backyard, you know, Bible clubs and things like that. And at the time, I was dead set. I was going to West Coast. Dead set. You could not change my mind. That's where I was going. Then we went there. We went to Commonwealth. We stayed the week. We stayed in the dorms. We did the backyard Bible clubs. We met a lot of their bus ministry kids. And, like Brett said, I was a diehard bus ministry. Loved the bus ministry. And so, when I saw how big their bus ministry was and how important it was to their church, I just, I fell in love with it. And, so, then I ended up worrying about it and changed my mind and ended up going to Commonwealth. You know, James, before you go into the next thing, I want to know real quick, you brought up Smite. You know, I was at the State Fair this past October at the Baptist tent. We were giving away a side-by-side, giving the gospel. And right behind us was Uncle Jerry. Really? With his trailer. So, he's still out there. I didn't even know he still had it. He's still out there showing that video, you know, and so, he's still doing his thing. James? For those that are not familiar with Smite, it means Summer Missionary Institute of Training and Evangelism. It's where fun, what is it, where fun goes to die? Yes. Where fun goes to die. I always heard about Smite Camp. Never went. I heard about Dan Carr and I saw some videos and that was one of those things I was like, you know, I never want to go there. Never want to go do that. It was intense. The idea of Smite, I mean, you just think like you're just going to get beat upside the head or something. It was intense, for sure. That's it. You got it. You got beat upside the head all the time. So, before we get started even in our conversation with Commonwealth, Brad, I'm going to deviate a little bit. What was your impression of the IFB, the Independent Fundamental Abadance Movement, growing up in it, of course, going to a Bible college there in it, were you fully bought in? Were you hook, line, and sinker? Oh, yeah. Like, completely bought into everything? Yeah, at the time, yes, absolutely. It was, I'm right, everybody else is wrong. We're the only people going to heaven, everybody else has got it wrong and they're all going to hell and I can't be friends with these people if they're not in the IFB and yeah. Yeah. You're still that way, correct? Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. Haven't changed from that position. Nope. I love it. So, your time at Commonwealth, what was the day-to-day experience? I'll be honest, I don't know much about Commonwealth. I knew some people that went there very vaguely, some different interactions. I know about West Coast, I've been involved there, Crown, Golden State, my time at Champion, I went to Eric Pacey's College. So, sort of tell us the day-to-day environment, the culture there, what was expected, the overall atmosphere from a student's perspective when you got there. So, when I got there, oh, I did go to college days and, you know, they sell things on college days, they make it look, you know, amazing. But, when I got there, it's a whole different ball game than those few days I spent at college days. Um, like, in the dorms, um, the dorm, I don't know if you've ever seen pictures of the dorms or heard about the dorms. It's an old hotel room or an old hotel that they've turned into dorms. So, think about the smallest hotel room you've ever stayed at in your entire life, like a Super 8 small hotel room um, with four girls, two sets of bunk beds, one vanity, one closet. It was, it was tiny, very tight quarters. Um, they would do room checks every Thursday and, um, we had white glove once a month but every Thursday they would come do room checks. They could go through everything. They could go under your bed. They could look in all of your drawers. Um, they could look in your closet. They could, you know, search everything. Um, the girls were not even allowed to sleep, like, in loose pajama pants. Uh, we had to sleep in dresses. We had to sleep in skirts. Like, you, you couldn't have any type of anything that resembled pants in the dorm at all. Um, then, to go off campus, like, you would have to have a campus pass, but you couldn't get it last minute. You had to do it at least 24 hours. So, if something came up and you needed, like, something from the store, like, you're just out of luck. You had to find somebody that was already going and get them to get what you needed. There was no, unless it was, like, an emergency, you needed to go to the hospital. Um, and it had to be approved by a staff member. Um, it was these little pieces of paper that you had to go to the office and get. And, you had to write, like, your name, where you were going, who was going with you, whose vehicle you were taking, what time you were leaving, what time you were going to be back. You had to sign out when you left, sign back in when you, um, get back. Um, and it had to be approved by a staff member. So, you had to make sure your pass was approved before you could even, you know, think about leaving the campus. Um, for chapel, we had chapel, I wouldn't say we had chapel every day. I'm pretty sure we had chapel every day. Um, they would pass around a sign-in sheet and you had to sign in for chapel every day. Um, I'm trying to think what else. Oh, so now, like, looking back at it, at it now, it's kind of weird, like, in the evenings. So, like, you have, like, a U shape with the dorms and then right in the middle, there's, like, a big building they built that's, like, where the chapel is and a lot of the school rooms and the library and things are. well, couples in the evenings would stand, of course, six inches apart and walk circles around that middle building and just talk for hours, literal hours. They would just walk and talk in, like, two by twos. It was, it was crazy. Looking back at it now, it was so weird, but, um, yeah, um, we had, like, a small game room that had, like, um, a ping pong table, obviously not a pool table because that's, like, worldly, but we had a ping pong table and we had, like, some little board games you could play. There was, like, a big sitting area, um, but you had to be outnumbered. If two girls were sitting at a table, there could only be one boy or if two boys was, no, wait, was it backwards? Yeah, yeah, for every one boy, there had to be two girls. Um, I tell you, sleeping in skirts is crazy work. Yeah. Because that Isles, the standard wasn't even that high. Yeah. You know, you could have pajama, the girls could have pajama bottoms in their room, but sleeping in a skirt is, is crazy work. And listen, I know this, let me ask you this before we move on. Uh, especially at Isles Anderson, um, it, for me, all right, for the, for the, for the guys, it was like they were, at summer camp, like they weren't really grown adults, but for the girls, it seems like to me, they were treated like prisoners on furlough. Is, is that the kind of, is that what kind of the atmosphere was for y'all there? Yeah, for sure. Um, the guys, always on lockdown. Yeah, the guys were definitely like, they were more lenient with the guys. Like they had a later curfew than the girls did. Um, they would have like men security guards, like students could be the security guard. And like, they would stay up to like two o'clock in the morning and just like walking around the campus. Um, the guys got to be the one to check the mailbox. Oh, I forgot about the mailboxes. We had like UPS, like the post office mailboxes. Everybody was assigned one. And at night you had to put your phone in the mailbox. And then whoever the security guard on duty that day was, would go in and check everybody's mailbox to make sure their, the phones were in there. And they would, could like write people up if their phone wasn't in there by a certain time or whatever. Um, that is amazing. That is, yeah, man. I've never heard of it either. That was, they went overkill on a lot of things. Um, I have a question before we even ask the next question, because that's how my mind works. Uh, as I'm thinking through this and you went to Commonwealth and you're there under Jeff Ugate, how was, did you go to another college before or after? After, um, when I left, uh, Commonwealth, I did go to tri-state first semester. Okay. And, uh, have you went anywhere else or no? Okay. Uh, what do you feel like their quality of education was? Uh, do you feel it was on par? Do you feel like it was just like Bible classes? Yeah. I feel walking away from getting that education for, you were there from 13 to 16 or 14 to 16 for a year and a half, two years. Yeah. It was, um, I feel like it was subpar. If I had to be honest, it just, I mean like your typical classes, like your English class was just like a regular English class, but like, then you had the Bible classes that were more of like Christian womanhood and like things like that, um, where they taught you how they wanted you to be and how like they felt like a woman should present themselves, which obviously I wasn't in the church leadership class because that was only for guys. But, um, like, like, I feel like most of the, like the Bible classes were focused more towards what they wanted you to be and how they thought you should be as a Christian or as a person in, you know, in leadership. Um, so yeah, I don't know if that answered your question. No, that's good. That's sort of what I was asking. We, we just did an interview last week with, uh, uh, Bryce and he talked, talked about the, uh, Bible meals and how they're just, they're not really putting out quality education. Uh, your, your take on that. Um, next idea as we walk through this while you were there under Commonwealth, I'm sure you had some interaction with Jeff Fugate could have been from a leadership perspective or even, uh, in church or classes, or maybe you had a time where you actually talked to them one-on-one. I have no idea. Um, and so how was that? And how did it shape the way people behaved when they were around him? Um, did people speak up about certain things or did he demand silence? What was the atmosphere around the man of God, uh, at the college? You could always tell a difference in the atmosphere, um, on a chapel day when you knew pastor Fugate was coming to preach. Everybody was on 10. Everybody was pumped. Everybody was excited. When he entered the room, they would, they would always, every day for chapel, they had like a side door that like led straight to the platform. So we would all be sitting, you know, music would be playing. And when that door opened and like people were walking up onto the platform, it was usually doc, um, uh, brother Whitehouse, um, and two or three other men usually, um, would come up on the platform and everybody would always clap. You know, everybody would stand, clap wherever. But on days that passion, if you get were there, it, I mean, everybody would just holler. People would be standing on the pews. Like they worshiped that man. I'm sure they still do. Um, and like talking to him one-on-one, he really wasn't, you know, a great guy to just conversate with. Um, I was friends with his daughter, Leah. Um, she was, I think a junior in high school whenever I was there. Um, she's only a couple of years younger than me. So I did have a little bit more of like a one-on-one relationship with her and with Mrs. Fugate, um, than I did with Pastor Fugate. But, um, I do feel like people, like I said, they worship the ground he walked on. They didn't want to say anything or do anything that might, um, upset him or, you know, that he might not approve of or whatever. And, you know, like when he walked into a room, everybody was just like at attention, like on their piece and cues. Um, just, um, almost not really that they feared him. I don't think, but just that they, I just feel like they worshiped him. And if there's anything that we know it's in the IFB, it's man worship. Yes. Putting a guy up on a pedestal where he can do no wrong, giving him more authority than he should have as a pastor. Um, that's kind of a running theme. Uh, I want to ask about the community there. I want to like the teachers and the students. Um, was, was, was it a hypercritical atmosphere? Did you feel safe being honest there? Or did you have to keep your thoughts to yourself and kind of toe the line a little bit? Um, tell me about just like the community there with the teachers and the other students. Um, so I feel like some, um, some staff members were easier to talk to than others. Um, I'm sure that's the case anywhere you go, but, um, for me, um, the fishers and, um, the white houses were like my safe place. Um, I felt like if I was going through something or if I needed to talk about something or something was bothering me or something like that, I could talk to them and not feel like they were going to come back and, you know, say, well, Oh, you feel this way because you're not right with God or something like that, you know? But, um, our dorm supervisor for the women, she was very critical. Um, she would call you out for all sorts of things. Um, she would write you up for your makeup, not being fixed the way she likes it, or your hair not being brushed the way she likes it. Um, what was her? Oh, Miss Richon. I think she came from Hiles. She did. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, she was my dorm supervisor. Um, so she was, she was tough. Um, and she lived on campus. She was a single woman. She lived on campus in one of the rooms. Um, when I first got there, we had the Bobbitts and they were super nice. They were, you know, very friendly, very open. Um, Doc was scary. Dr. Dorgensen is scary. I think he also came from Hiles. Um, so he was a very tough, tough person to talk to. Um, I had a meeting with him one time actually, because I drove the college car and basically what that was is people that didn't have a car would, um, pay the college car to take them to him from work. And so I drove and drove people to him from work and I went to the gas station and got a drink one day and I was handed the wrong receipt. I didn't look at it. I just laid the receipt in the car and went about my day. Well, the person that drove the next day found the receipt and whoever was in front of me at the store bought lottery tickets and they turned to the receipt in thinking that it was me. And so I had a meeting with Doc and it was a whole big thing. Like he just jumped down my throat and like never even gave me an explanation, like a chance to explain myself or anything like that. Like I got written up, I got the merits, you know, all that thing, all that stuff. Um, but there was just no point in, you know, trying to even argue because, you know, he was set. We had a guy come on named James Spurgeon. He was at Longview Baptist temple and grew up there. He's got a book out, uh, the Longview Baptist crucible. Uh, he's got a podcast now after he came on with us. And one of the things he talks about repeatedly in his book, uh, was how they would use other students to incentivize the turning in or ratting out of other people to build, uh, seniority almost. Um, I've been watching and doing some research on, uh, Jim Jones and the people's temple. And, uh, we're probably going to do a in-depth four or five part series on that here soon. Um, and that was one of the things that when they moved to, uh, the people's temple to Guyana, South, South America, uh, was Jim Jones used that manipulation tactic of, if you tell on people, you'll get rewarded. Uh, and how people was constantly worried about what they would say or how they would act because, uh, this constant, never knowing what's going to be said or told to be used against me. And to think someone would, would pick up a receipt and automatically go. And not just like, Hey, Allie, did you buy these or, or what is that? Like, why wouldn't they come to you first in that situation versus just going straight to the administration? It blows my mind. Right. It, it was definitely one of those cases where, Oh, if I turn this in, it'll get me brownie points. Yes. Um, yeah. You know, and the next time I get in trouble, maybe it won't be that bad because, you know, I, I, I turned her in. So, yeah. Um, so how did the teaching preaching that was there, uh, maybe describe that a little bit. What was Fugate's preaching style? What was he like? Um, and then how did that ultimately impact your view of God, um, and the, and the gospel in, in your life? Um, his preaching style, I would say it reminded me a lot like home. Um, my pastor growing up, he, he preached hard, but he, he wasn't one of those screaming holler all the time type preachers. And I feel like brother Fugate was very similar to that. Um, you know, he, he preached his message and he preached what he had, you know, he said what he had to say. Um, but he wasn't one of those screaming your face, you know, jump down your throat type, um, preachers, but we did have a lot of guest speakers. We had, um, Hamblin come in several times. Um, I, if I sat here and thought, I could probably name you several that came in and spoke and they were that type. Um, but I feel like growing up in the IFB and going to Commonwealth and hearing preaching like that, especially at Commonwealth, it gave me more of a fear of God than a reverence for him. Um, if that makes any sense. Um, it made me scared, I guess, to mess up. I mean, you know, scared that if I don't go so in for three hours, if I only go two and a half, then I'm not gonna be right with God, you know, like things like that. Um, give me more of a fear than, you know, than anything. Um, I feel like it really made me question my salvation a lot. I struggled with that a lot about in Bible college because I felt like I wasn't living up to the expectations that all these men were preaching. And it was always, well, if you're right with God, you'll live this way. If you're right with God, you'll do this. If you're saved, you'll do this. If you're saved, you'll act like this. And there were just parts of me that I felt like were not up to their standard. And so therefore I felt like, well, maybe I'm not, am I really saved? Like if I'm not doing all these things that they're saying, like, am I really, you know, was it real? Is it real? Well, I'll tell you what, looking back over your time there, um, what does anything come to mind is like manipulation, controlling, harmful, any coverups come to mind, any abusive situations, uh, thinking about, uh, that you can remember, over your time there. Um, I don't, I don't know if this fits into the category, but I feel like they use the college students to run a lot of their ministries, um, instead of using the church people. And I feel like that was very controlling and manipulative. Like we weren't allowed to be a part of ministries that we were called to. It was, everybody was involved in the bus ministry. Every single college student had to be in the bus ministry. Um, whether you wanted to or not. Um, and then like, you had to be approved to be in other ministries. Like if you felt called to work in a children's church, well, you had to be approved for that. And I don't, I don't know. I feel like if I feel God's calling to be in a certain ministry, I feel like it shouldn't be up to someone to tell me yes or no, you can't. Um, as far as any like, kind of like abuse or like coverups, I don't know of any that I can think of, if I'm being honest. Um, I mean, I know of a few situations like within the church, but like not that didn't involve like staff members. Yeah. You know that thinking about what you said about your view of salvation and just the standard of, uh, of the view of God. I mean, the holiness of God is, is what a wonderful attribute to think about and to dwell on in our Christian walk. And for people to use that as, you know, making you doctor salvation, uh, it is, it's tough to, to walk through an environment like that. Um, definitely can, can relate to that in a lot of ways. Um, and you know, even in our research, we really couldn't find anything, uh, cover up was huge other than just his authoritarian style of leadership. Um, and so what I want to sort of ask is now is sort of, as we transition to the last part of the interview is what led you to realize that you needed to walk away from Commonwealth and eventually, uh, I assume walk away from the IFB. I assume you're not still a part of the IFB or go to life. Okay. Uh, uh, and how did the leadership around that begin to, to react? So if you get his leadership, uh, the church that you and Brett were at, I'm sure when you came back to Mississippi, you were close to that, even maybe even family, how did they begin to respond when you pulled away and began to leave the IFB? Um, so let's start with the Commonwealth part because the latter part of that question is very heavy. Um, so the Commonwealth part, I, I started realizing that your rank as a college student depended on your home church, who your pastor is, who your family is. an open door was just a little spot on the map. Nobody cared about open door or they, they didn't know your pastor's name. Like if your pastor wasn't coming as a special speaker in chapel, you didn't really mean much. Um, you were just a number there for your, you know, you were there for your money. Basically, they were just glad to have you because they get, get your money. Um, they, I, I started realizing they didn't really care about me and my spirituality and my, you know, mental health, physical health, spiritual health, anything. Um, so when I, when I really started realizing that, and I realized that I don't have to be here, um, I don't have to give these people my money if they don't care about me as a person. Um, they only care about me as a number. They only care about me as a bus worker. They only care about me as a nursery worker, somebody to keep their stuff running. Um, that's when I decided, okay, like I should probably look at different options. Um, so I wanted to come back closer to home. So I ended up at tri state for a little while. And, um, my best friend, her name is Emily. And her dad was really sick with cancer. Um, and I really wanted to be there. Um, cause he was like a second dad to me growing up. And, um, so I went to come, I mean, tri state and loved it there. It was totally different atmosphere, which I had known those people since I was a kid. Um, so, um, that, you know, really helped me like kind of start building my relationship with God again. I didn't feel like I was being put down all the time. I didn't feel like, um, you know, that nobody cared about where I was spiritually because a lot of the people there, like, like I said, they've known me for a long time. So I knew that they cared. I knew that they loved me. So I was in a much better place. And, um, I stayed there for about a semester. Um, I went to class and then I helped take care of my friend, Emily's dad and her grandma that was really sick at the time. Um, so that was a big, you know, turning point in my life where I just started to really work on myself spiritually and, um, you know, get back strong in my faith and things like that. And then after that, I did move back home. And, um, I don't know how much Brad has told you about the church we grew up at. Um, but, uh, uh, I want to say it was about a year and a half after I moved back home. Um, I was, I was still in the IFB. Um, I had started questioning just because, um, I had like friends and siblings that were not in the IFB and people I knew that, um, you know, we're not in the IFB. And as I, you know, now that I'm older, you know, at this point, um, I, you know, realize that, Hey, these people are really not bad people. Like they, they really are good, strong Christian people. Like maybe, maybe they're not wrong. Maybe I have it wrong. So I was already questioning at this point. Um, and then it was the day after Easter of 2017. Um, I was at my friend's house and I got a phone call that I need to come home immediately. So I came home and when I got there, I couldn't find anybody. And, um, my dad pulled up on a four wheeler. It was raining. And he told me that my mama was missing. And come to find out, my mama had taken a whole bottle of Ambien and she had walked into a, into the woods and we found her in a creek bed. And we ended up, um, getting her in an ambulance, getting her, um, to the hospital and things like that. Um, she had apparently left a suicide note. Um, I never got to read the note, um, the police officers let all of my other siblings read it, but I was never allowed to read it. And to this day, I don't know why. Um, but then it came out that my mama had been having an affair with the pastor of our church. Um, and she, she at the time was the church secretary. And so when it came out, um, she felt like that was her only way out. So that happened. And that is kind of really what started pushing me away from the IFB. I was mad. I was angry. Um, um, um, I had lots of questions, lots of questions. Um, we did end up getting a new pastor shortly after that. Um, oh, wait, let me back up. I also didn't appreciate the fact that, um, the pastor was allowed to just leave quietly, but my mom was made to stand and give a public apology in front of the entire church. Um, I felt like that was not handled correctly. Um, you know, things like that. Anyway, we ended up getting a new pastor. And, um, then at the time I was in cosmetology school and I had to wear scrubs to school and we were not allowed to wear skirt scrubs. We had to wear pants scrubs. And, um, I was on my way home from school. It was a Wednesday night and, um, I was running late. So it was either, I had to make a decision, either miss church because I didn't have time to go home and I didn't want to go to church in pants or just show up to church. And I thought, well, at least I'd be at church no matter what I'm wearing. Um, but I was called out from the pulpit in front of everyone by this pastor for being at church and pants. And at handshaking time, I left and I have never stepped back foot in that church. And that was the end of my AFP journey. Yeah. Wow. Go ahead, James. No, I was going to say that's, that's a lot. Um, did not know about your mom and, and, and the pastor and everything. Brett shared a little bit about, you know, pastor leaving and stuff, but I didn't know that was the situation. Um, man, I, that that's, that's heavy. Um, for a lot of reasons, a lot of what you said, uh, me and John, me and Brett, we've talked about, um, lots of, of, of stages of leaving the spiritually abusive environments. Uh, recently came out with a book from brokenness to freedom. And it, it addresses, uh, almost every one of those issues of questioning, bitterness, anger, um, of just how to, how to work through that and walk through that. Um, so definitely, uh, some difficult things there that you talk about. Go ahead, Brett. I, I, I know this, uh, and to tell you, Allie, I knew the story, but I don't, I don't say anything unless, you know, I don't say anything. You should know James doesn't know. Yeah. You know, unless, you know, you know, somebody who's involved in it wants to say something that's fine, but it's not my place, but I'll tell you that past that, that it's, it was the very next pastor after Walker, right? Mm-hmm. I forget his name. Parker. He was such a joke. I'm sorry. He was like Colonel Sanders. He was such a joke. I'm sorry. I just had to put that out there in the universe. um, his whole family was, um, you know, I came to realize that, you know, I was really close to his, um, to his daughter there for a little while. And, um, after I left, you know, and it was one of those things that when I walked out, the pastor's wife, read out to me the next day and asked, you know, if I, if we could have lunch, but it wasn't to get me to come back. It was to make me feel bad. It wasn't a, Hey, I'm sorry. It was a, well, you were wrong. You were in the wrong. That's, that's why this happened, you know, and you're right. It was, it, he was a joke. The whole family was a joke. Um, well, I'll, let me ask you this, Allie, you, you told us a lot and we appreciate your honesty, but you know, how has all this left you? How has it shaped your faith? How has it shaped your understanding of the Christian life? Yeah. Um, so obviously I had to do a lot of, of deconstructing. Um, I had to do a lot of soul searching and Bible searching and, um, I ended up going to a Southern Baptist church for a while and, um, I had a one-on-one with the pastor and I kind of told him everything that I was taught growing up. And he put me into a group with, um, some other young adult women and it was led by an old, older woman in the church. And it was such a safe space for me to, you know, we all just, we talked about things that we were, you know, we had been taught growing up. And this woman was the most knowledgeable human being that I have ever met in my entire life. Like she knew a Bible verse for every single thing that any of us brought up. And so we could bring up something and she would say, well, turn it, let's turn to this chapter, this verse. And we would go through it and we would read it. And that alone helped me so much just to, cause I didn't know where to start. Like I had no idea like where to start reading to figure out what do I believe, you know, what, what do, what is right? Like what, what of what I've been taught growing up is not a lie. So to have her like really be able to help me, um, was a game changer for me. Um, I'm trying to think I had some, somewhere else I was going with that. Um, Oh, so like now, um, I, I mean, I know who I am. I know who I believe. I know who I am in Christ. Um, and I know that nobody can take that away from me. Um, you know, and I'm stronger in my faith now than I've ever been. Um, I don't attend church regularly. I work a lot on the weekends. Um, but I am part of a, like a online Bible study group with, um, like three or four girls my age and then some younger, like teenage girls that were able to help and disciple. Um, so I, you know, I really enjoy that. We, um, we do like a FaceTime call like once a week. Um, so it's, it's been really nice. Um, to be strong in my faith and to help be able to help others so that they don't have to deconstruct and go through the spiritual battles that I've been through. That's great. You know, one of the things, uh, sort of the last question, unless Brad has anything else. One of the things that we push and we urge people to do is, uh, begin to figure out how you can help other people. Once you've came through your own journey, your own story, uh, as you go through scripture, uh, often you will see Paul discipling a Timothy and Paul discipling the side. He's constantly working on other people. He's encouraging Timothy to, to work with someone else. And, uh, he, he tells us in Titus for the older men to be mentoring the younger men and the older women to mentor the younger women. And so part of our journey in life is pouring in other people and helping them through their journey. Um, and so what would you say to other people that are sort of in this similar environment? Um, how you sort of went through it? And then what would you have wished that you would have known as you were going through this, um, uh, coming out of the IFB, um, and, and, and through this Bible college experience and even through the traumatic experience with your mom? Um, what would you have wanted to have known or someone has said to you during that time? Um, I think the biggest thing for me would just be like, you're not alone. Um, cause like coming out of the IFB, like, I feel like that's like one of the biggest feelings that you have is like the loneliness because growing up in the IFB, that's all you've ever known. It's all the friends you have, you know, that's all of, you know, the community that you have. So coming out of it, just knowing that you're not alone. There are people out there that know what you're going through. They know how you feel. They know what you're struggling with. And, you know, connect with somebody, if anybody, and, and just talk about, you know, how you feel and, you know, what you're going through and, you know, ask advice about, well, hey, you know, how do you handle this situation? How do you handle this feeling? Um, I feel like that would have been the biggest help for me. Um, what was, you know, would have been to have people close that I felt safe with. Like talking to about it because getting ready to step out of the IFB is, is also really scary because you, you don't know who you can trust. So you don't want to let anybody know that you're questioning because then, you know, they're going to go back until like the leader, you know, the preacher or whatever that, oh, so-and-so's, you know, questioning leaving. And, um, you know, that's a very culty thing to do. Um, so yeah, just having like a safe place. Um, but also just to remember, you don't have to be there. Like you, you have every, every right to walk away. It is scary. It is hard. And it does feel like you're starting over completely, but you don't have to be there. If you don't have to stay there. Exactly. I think, you know, me and James talk about this a lot when you, when you're in the IFB and then you come out of it because your whole identity is wrapped up in it. You feel like you're on an Island by yourself. And, uh, like you try to tell other people about what you experienced. They look at you like, what, what are you talking about? Yeah. Never heard of that. The IF what, I, what even is that? And you feel so weird even talking to people about it because it's so strange. So just knowing, go ahead. People like ask you a little bit like, well, why did you stay so long? Right. And I'm like, cause they don't, they don't get it. I thought this was normal. Like I thought that I had it right. You know, it takes a lot to shock you enough to realize, Oh, Hey, I can walk away. Right. Um, it takes a, a life changing, altering event. And, uh, I've shared my testimony on here. Mine was my pastor screaming at me and hitting his desk in my office and just, just laying me out because I sent a resume to another church. And that was the, that was the thing that kind of shook me loose. I whole, I need to get away from here, but it takes something traumatic to wake you up to that. And so, man, I'm just, I, I'm going to thank you, Allie for coming on here and sharing your story. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm very grateful for that. I'm proud of the person you've grown up to be. And, uh, like I said, I've known you since you was a kid and I am, I'm just, I'm so happy, uh, that you had the opportunity to do this. James, did you have anything else? Yeah. I had one other thing that I want to say to piggyback off of what you said just now was, uh, I'm a big documentary guy. I've watched, uh, the NXIVM, uh, cult. They've got a, uh, podcast out now called a little bit culty. Um, I've watched the branch Davidian, of course, the Jim Jones. And, you know, it's, it's almost like this. You're, you're on the outside looking into these documentaries and these docu-series. And you're like, how do you not see this guy is manipulating you or controlling you? Or, you know, you're doing these things and you're like, please get out. But then when you're in it, you don't see those things. And you talk, you talk to these survivors afterwards and they're like, we just thought that was normal. Like sleep deprivation, starvation, branding ourselves, doing these things that were just normal for us to do. Cause everyone was doing it. And we're like, yeah, but that's not normal. Yeah. Um, and so that is, that is one of those things that people are, they just don't understand, uh, when your whole life, like Brett said, is wrapped up into this identity. Um, you know, how holy can I be? How great can I be to the pastor? How awesome can I look? And, um, you know, it creates little mini robots that are serving this man and no longer serving God. Um, and so that, that is wonderful to think about, but I thank you for, um, bringing up your story and sharing that with us. Um, and, uh, if this has been an encouragement to you, uh, dear listener, please let us know, share this like this. And, uh, until next time to God, be the glory, great things. He has done. I found my new name, found that good grace, found that healing, and the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning, it has no ending. I found that second chance, found my best friend, found my forgiveness, found my happiness. I've been singing ever since about my freedom. And, uh, thanks for listening to the for freedom podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast, or whichever podcast platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for the for freedom podcast.

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