237. A special Tribute to Jack Hyles at 100 — The Man, the Movement, and the Legacy

1. 0:12

   September 25th 1926 in a little town in Texas called Italy a boy named Jack Fraser Hiles was born a hundred years later his name is still known in churches all across America some remember him as one of the

   greatest preachers that they've ever heard some remember him as a man who taught them how to win souls some remember the buses Sunday school the packed auditorium in Hammond Indiana a preacher's voice that's unmistakably heard the books and

   Howells Anderson College and some remember a very different story they remember the question they remember the controversies the stories and the allegations the culture or as some like to call it a cult that was developed around a man

   who became one of the most influential figures in the independent Baptist movement Jack Howells died on February 6th 2001 he was 74 years old and in some ways that story didn't end when he died because Jack Howells wasn't

2. 1:17

   just simply a pastor he became a model a model for generations and a movement on how to build churches how to run a Sunday school how to organize a bus ministry how to train young preachers how to measure

   evangelical success how to conduct the pastors conference how to think about separation how to think about loyalty and

   for thousands of people how to think about ministry itself first Baptist Hammond was had been found decades before Howells ever arrived was founded as an SBC church and later became an independent fundamental Baptist church but when Jack Howells

   became the pastor in 1959 something extraordinary happened the church exploded in size the ministry became known nationally hundreds of buses brought people into this church Sunday school attendance reached numbers that few churches in America could ever even imagine

   Howells Anderson College was established in 1972 to train pastors and missionaries evangelists teachers and Christian workers at its height first Baptist Hammond was reported to attendance of thousands tens of thousands of people the numbers were staggering the influence

3. 2:28

   was even larger and the influence spread far beyond Hammond Indiana and here's where the story begins to get complicated because a hundredth birthday tribute gives a opportunity to remember and remembering I like how many people say remembering is

   not romanticizing the as we examine a man's legacy it does not require us to pretend that everything that he did was right Jack Howells was a complicated figure there are things about his ministry that deserve to be studied

   and there are things that deserve to be appreciated and there are certainly things that deserve to be questioned

   and we look through this and we begin to see there are lots of things that should never ever be repeated

   so today we're going to be doing something things a little different we're going to look back and we're not going to look back through rose colored glasses we're not going to look through lenses as if everything never happened

4. 3:26

   in his death we're going to look at the history we're going to look at Jack Howells who he was where he came from and how he was able to build the most influential ministry in all of fundamental

   why did so many people follow him why what did he teach what did he teach what did he get right where did he go wrong and maybe the most important question of all what happens when a ministry becomes

   so closely identified with one man that all of a sudden they even begin praying to this man because if we're going to talk about Jack Howells at 100 we shouldn't just talk about the man we should talk about

   the movement that he helped create and the people he helped create and jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry

5. 4:22

   jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry

   jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry

   jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry

   jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry

6. 4:22

   jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry jewelry us today. Story of Jack Howes, a pastor, a preacher, a builder, a controversial figure,

   a giant in the independent fundamental Baptist movement whose face is still on the walls in churches to this day. A man whose legacy is still being debated 25 years after his death. That's what we're going to talk about today. And welcome back to the 4-Freedom Podcast.

   For freedom, you set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace, cigars and victory justified, released.

   Welcome to the 4-Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. From head to feet, no tally of tradition, no man-made code.

7. 5:26

   Blood bought my freedom, now I ride that road. They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise. But my praise still ascends past the legalist cries.

   Christ plus nothing, that's the real math. So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path. He sat with sinners, I'm sitting with saints. Sipping grace from the bottle, no room for fakes. I light one for liberty, toast to the king. Every ash a sermon, death has lost its sting.

   For freedom, you set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now I'm puffing peace, cigars and victory justified, released. Let grace begin. For freedom, you set me free. Not for change, not for guilt, Now here are your hosts, James Safrit and Brett Martin.

   Well, Brett, welcome back. What a great day it is. We get to celebrate today 100 years of Jack Howes' birthday.

8. 6:34

   All across the IFB movement. There's a page out there dedicated to it that I found this couple of weeks ago. And now my feed has been blowing up with all these images and sermon series and sermon things that Jack Howes put out. There's a new book that Jack Howes just put out.

   I don't know if you saw this or not. But it's Jack Howes' story as a young child coming to know Jesus.

   It's a seven-part series that he preached on a Wednesday night somewhere in church. And they've taken those messages and they've turned it into transcripts.

   And then they've put it into a book format. And it's his newest book that came out by Jack Howes 125 years after he died.

   It's like stories when he was a kid. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Almost like the Gnostic Gospels. Jesus as a kid, like he's making clay pigeons and stuff.

9. 7:22

   Now we have another testament about Jack Howes that we didn't have before. Absolutely. Another testament. Another one came out. Another one. Maybe.

   It's crazy that it's been that, you know, 100 years because it's crazy it's been that long because I was there when he died. I was attending Hal Zanderson College when he passed away. And it's crazy to think that it's been that long.

   Because he was only, like you said, he was only 74 when he passed away. So it's been a while. But then again, it hasn't.

   And Jack Howes has had a lot of influence. But that's what we're here to do. We're here to talk about him today. Yep. Here to talk about the man, the myth, the legend. His newest book is called The Young Jack Howes. As told to him to inspire a new generation.

   That's the new book. It's a picture of him as a young kid.

10. 8:15

    Let me remember what it said here. It's an insightful volume that invites readers to walk with him through the struggles, growth, and God leading his hand. Touches of humor and spiritual insight. The Young Jack Howes is more than just a biography. It's devoted to telling his story from his words.

    And I mean, like one part is like his early years in ministry. It's not even like a young, like as a kid. It's like him coming to Hammond. And then chapter two is like his 70th birthday.

    Like they took a message from his 70th birthday and they put it in there. Like does the book say that he's the author? Yeah, it says by Jack Howes. Wow.

    So he's like Tupac still putting out records. Tupac and Charles Spurgeon still putting out records, still putting out books. I love the every year we'll get a new never before published sermon by Charles Spurgeon.

11. 9:15

    And it's like, how many never before published sermons are we going to get from this guy? Exactly. Exactly. Oh, man. But yeah, it's been good. We got an exciting episode. As you heard from our cold open, we're talking about Jack Howes today.

    And we've been talking about him as we've been walking through the House Church Manual. We felt that this was a good opportunity for where we're at. I did not realize that his 100th birthday was going to fall while we're doing this series. And so providentially, the Lord lined this up for us.

    And so we're wanting to bring this special edition episode to you today on looking and examining the life of Jack Howes. Brett, any opening things that have been going on in your life?

    Man, I'll tell you what. We've just been, it's been fall, but we've still been sweating. It's hot.

12. 10:02

    Man, we've got our homecoming Sunday coming up Sunday. I've got a full, we've got a different executive from our Mississippi Baptist Board coming every night of our revival. The theme of the revival is Mississippi on Mission.

    And I'm really excited about it. We're going to have the Allen family come and sing for us for our homecoming. So my next week is going to be extremely, extremely busy. Add to that all the master.

    I'm working on my master's, all that, all that work, school work that I've got to do. So next, next week is going to be really busy for me. But I love what I do. I wouldn't rather do anything else. And I always tell people, if I won the lottery,

    you know, people say if they win the lottery, they'll quit their job. Man, if I won the lottery, I would still come into work the next day because I absolutely love what I do.

13. 10:55

    Oh, man. That's good. That's good. And, hey, I saw your son led worship or something this week. Yeah, he got up and sang. We had a string. We put together this past Sunday was a music emphasis Sunday.

    So most of our service was just the talented people in our church singing. And we formed a little string band. And my son got up there. And he was supposed to, you know, shake the can.

    But he couldn't keep the time. So he just stayed up there and helped him sing. But, yeah, I was proud to see him up there. Love it. That's great, man. That's good stuff. Yeah, we I got this past week to preach at my son's chapel.

    And I preached on Shamgar and a little Old Testament judge there in between Ehud and Deborah. And it was a great time for me. And I think it's been doing well, man.

14. 11:48

    I appreciate all of our listeners, all the ones that have reached out and given feedback. I know I'm going to be in Tennessee in a couple of weeks in October 22nd through 24th.

    If you're in the area, shoot me a message. And we'd love to connect with you, get together. I'll be setting up and selling some cigars there.

    It's a great way you can help promote and fund the podcast and what we do and to continue to put out the things that we're putting out. As always, I've got two books out, From Brokenness to Freedom and Freedom from Depression.

    If you want to avail yourselves of that, they're always there for you. And maybe one day we'll get Brett to write a book and put his name on some stuff. And we'll put out the Dr. Reverend Honorable Brett Martin's name on a book. It'd be good stuff.

15. 12:37

    Yeah, let's do it. All right. Well, hey, let's jump into this episode. Without further ado, let's get started.

    Brett, why don't you jump off by telling us who Jack Howes was? You got to set under him for about a semester of time. And so why don't you share just sort of a little bit who he was? Did I say his middle name right? Frazier?

    Is that how you said it? Frazier. Yeah, Jack Frazier. I was afraid I said it wrong. That's right.

    So Jack Howes was born September 25, 1926 in Italy, Texas. He eventually attended East Texas Baptist College and studied at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

    He began preaching at the age of 19. His early ministry was almost entirely in Texas. Morris Chapel Baptist Church in Bogota. Grange Hall Baptist Church in Marshall. Southside Baptist Church in Henderson. Miller Road Baptist Church in Garland.

16. 13:31

    Miller Road becomes important. According to accounts from Howes' ministry,

    he inherited a church of fewer than 50 people and saw it grow to more than 4,000.

    Before Jack Howes became the Jack Howes everybody knows, he was simply a young preacher who figured out how to build a church. That was the quote. There was already a philosophy developing. Evangelism, organization, Sunday school, soul winning, growth. Then came 1959.

    Yeah, and Miller Road for me is important. My first pastor that I served under in Idaho led worship at Miller Grove, Miller Road Baptist Church in Garland, Texas.

    That was his first ministry assignment as well. So Jack Howes was everywhere, all over the walls there. Still a large church, still running about 1,000 while he was there. This was about 20 years ago. And Jack Howes modeled his ministry.

    If you didn't know this, and you can go back and see our previous work at the beginning,

17. 14:36

    Jack Howes modeled his ministry after J. Frank Norris and pastored two churches at the same time. For a while there, he pastored Miller Road and Howes Anderson at First Baptist Church of Hammond simultaneously, I believe, if my memory serves me correctly, during those early years.

    But yeah, then comes 1959. Then the moment comes where he becomes the pastor of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana in August of 1959. And he remained there as pastor until his death in 2001 while Brett was there.

    He saw Brett, and he saw the legacy that Brett was going to leave, and he said, I can finally go to Jesus now. Yeah, just move on. I mean, I'm done. There's nothing left for me to do. I found my successor.

    I found the one that's going to lead the torch and is going to carry the mantle. I've tried to carry that baton ever since.

18. 15:31

    It was an Elijah-Elisha moment, right? It was Elijah stepping off the scene because he knew it was Elisha's turn. And Jack Howes stood up from that pulpit and looked out and saw that glorious glowing red head and said, Hashtag double portion.

    Amen. Amen. This is where the story becomes remarkable because First Baptist Hammond says that Howes pastor involved tremendous expansion in the development of numerous ministries.

    Christianity Today reported that after his death, the attendance had grown from just a few hundred people to around 20,000 people.

    Hundreds of buses were being used to bring in people from the church. And, Brett, I have a question to ask for you. I want you to forget everything you know about Jack Howes today. Maybe go back to your young 15-, 16-year-old self. You're a young Fundamentals Baptist pastor in 1975.

    You looked at Hammond and you saw 20,000 people coming through the doors.

19. 16:30

    You saw the mega machine of just ministry and people.

    What do you think and what do you do? This guy knows what he's doing. I want to go listen to what he has to say. I want to replicate it in my church. Absolutely.

    And when he puts out a book that says this is how you grow your church. You buy it instantly. Give it to me. I got to have it. You got to have it. You got to read after it. You got to know what he's saying. That's right.

    And you're probably right. That's what these guys were thinking. That's what my pastors were thinking. The Howes system that he had built was a reproducible, replicatable system.

    This is what made him so influential. This is what made him different than just other churches. He didn't just build a church. He taught people how to build a church that same way.

20. 17:18

    He had Sunday school, replicatable. He had a bus ministry. Pick up a bus or a van. You could pick people up. Soul winning, visitation, door knocking, going out and teaching people how to go and talk to people about Jesus. The training, the pastor's conferences, the books, the college, the sermons, everything he had, he was sending out.

    He was replicating. He was putting his sermons out on the sword of the Lord. He was sending his sermons out with cassettes so that people could hear them and replicate them in their own churches. Eventually, thousands of men took those methods home and began regurgitating things like this. Who slew all of these?

    These women in shorts? Who slew all of these? These poor kids that are, the girls pregnant before they married, caused boys to get so stirred up passionately that they'll rape a girl. Brother, you listen to me.

21. 18:16

    For every single man that goes to prison for rape, they ought to be right beside him, a half-naked girl in the next cell. Who slew all of these? People on beaches. Who slew all of these? Those churches that have big swimming parties. Exactly.

    In fact, my pastor actually graduated from Tennessee Temple, didn't actually attend House Anderson, but he went to pastor school.

    And a lot of those methods he brought back was from pastor school. But let's talk about the bus ministry, because the bus ministry deserves its own section, because it's one of the clearest examples of Hiles' influence.

    The idea was very simple. Go get people. Don't wait for them to walk through your doors. Send buses into neighborhoods. Pick up children. Bring families to church. Organize workers around those routes. Create Sunday school classes. Build the church outward. House became particularly identified with this approach.

22. 19:32

    There's nothing unbiblical about taking the gospel to people. The more important question is, what happens when a good ministry method becomes a measurement system?

    We've already talked about the machine, and now we're going to talk about the man who became synonymous with the machine.

    In 1972, the greatest institution in all of IFB history was established, and that history was the Howells Anderson Bible College, Howells Anderson Baptist College.

    It was founded under the leadership of Jack Howells and Russell Anderson. And Brett, I came across this clip, and I couldn't not play it, because I think it exemplifies the ministry of Howells Anderson when Jack Howells talks about his mom.

    We have an awful hard time about joining the Bible of the Month Club.

    I mean, we just thought, we didn't know until just a few years ago, Mama's Bible wasn't so. We always thought Mama's Bible was so.

23. 20:42

    And so did you, you met a scholar. There's not one single preacher in this room tonight, but what, when you left for college, you thought Mama's Bible was the Word of God.

    When you got to college, you met a scholar, and that scholar told you Mama's Bible was not the Word of God. But my mama's a greater scholar than all the professors at Howells Anderson College put together. Now, Brett, you attended Howells Anderson.

    You sat under the teaching and the training of Howells Anderson. Do you think that Jack Howells' mom was more in tune with teaching the Bible than those men were?

    What does that say about the education that you would have gotten from there? Let me say, there is a possibility that Jack Howells' mom knew more about how to interpret the Bible than the professors of Howells Anderson College. It's probably the only times I can actually agree.

24. 21:38

    I mean, who gets up and says that? His mom is more, like, how degrading, as degrading as they put women already, how degrading is that? As you're a professor sitting out in that sermon, like, amen, brother, amen.

    Yeah, she's smarter than me. I'm just getting a paycheck. Like, what does that say about your college? Yeah.

    This is the stated purpose. That apparently their own professors and teachers couldn't do was training pastors, missionaries, evangelists, Christian school teachers, and musicians and church leaders.

    The college claims to have, this is from their own website, claims that says that they have more than 9,200 graduates that serve in all 50 states and 60 foreign countries.

    This tells you something about Howells' influence. His ministry wasn't just producing Sunday school attendees. It was producing ministries. It was sending people out. My college that I went to was a product of Howells Anderson.

25. 22:39

    This man could, a man could go to Hammond, hear Howells, attend the college, learn the system, graduate, go somewhere else, and immediately reproduce it.

    And this is how this movement grew so fast, so quickly in this area. You know, these churches are supposed to be independent, autonomous Baptist churches. But, I mean, James, I mean, when Howells was alive, he was the Baptist pope. Yeah. He was the independent Baptist pope.

    He was the man, he was on the flagship First Baptist Hammond, and everybody looked to him to set the course. And there were a couple of detractors. There were a couple of people, a couple of schisms. Some movements went their own way.

    But for the most part, when he was here, Howells was the Baptist pope. But Howells faced significant criticism during his lifetime as well, including allegations concerning sexual misconduct, financial matters, doctrinal issues, and leadership culture.

26. 23:43

    In 1989, Robert Sumner's The Biblical Evangelist published a major investigation titled The Saddest Story We Ever Published. Sumner said that he spent months gathering and documenting materials before publication.

    Howells rejected the accusations and called them lies. Then came serious abuse allegations involving people connected with First Baptist Hammond. In 1991, a church deacon, A.V.

    Ballinger, was accused of molesting children. The church was sued by the family of a seven-year-old girl, and the case was settled out of court. Ballinger was later convicted and sentenced to prison. Who could better speak to us tonight than our 911 number? Amen. He's always there for the fundamentalist of America.

    One of the finest men I know. A man who spends over 300 nights a year in motel rooms.

    All of that time defending us. And every time he defends a case, he's defending us. Because if he loses that case,

27. 24:56

    the next church should be tried for the same thing. Thank God for David Gibbs. Thank God for Christian Law Association.

    We couldn't have had a banquet tonight. That would be just what it ought to be without him. Dr. Gibbs, would you come, please? Thank God for our 911 number. I am thrilled. I am delighted. I am honored. I'm flat tickled.

    How many of you know what the word tickled means? You know what I mean? I am tickled to be here tonight. And I'm thrilled to be here tonight. Because I believe without reservation, without qualification, I believe in Brother Ballinger. I believe in Brother Ballinger.

    Have you ever in your life, I know I sure have, pretended a little bit to be what you weren't?

    Did you ever try to make people think you got it together better than you got it together? How many of you know what I'm talking about?

28. 26:23

    I mean, did you ever just try to fake people out? To fool them? To make them believe you were what you weren't?

    1993, WJBK aired a television investigation called Praying from the Pulpit, examining allegations involving several churches and individuals with connections to the Hammond Ministry and Hiles Anderson.

    Hiles strongly rejected the report and organized the response to it. The existence of genuine ministry fruit does not erase wrongdoing, and wrongdoing does not mean every biblical truth someone preached was false.

    That was a quote. You know, I think that's that quote from and that clip from Jack Hiles endorsing A.V.

    Bellinger and David Gibbs getting up after that where he said, I fully have my full unequivocal belief in this man that he is innocent, and they gave him an award, and they have the necklaces and the trophies. They have this big service honoring him just to later be convicted and sentenced to prison.

29. 27:36

    I mean, what does that say about their character? What does that say about David Gibbs and who he represents? Exactly.

    You know, he may have just had the wool put over his eyes. He very well may have. But for him to get up and to honor this man and to sort of rub it in that family's face, man, you can't not look at the victims here.

    And we see over and over again as we look through those controversies of the victim has been overlooked and nothing ever been done, but the perpetrator has been the ones that's elevated. So what happened?

    Who followed him? It's easy 25 years later to look back and to say, how could anyone have followed this guy? Look at the controversies. Look at the different things that happen.

    How can they follow him? And that's not really the historical question we have to ask.

30. 28:28

    The better question is, why did people experience? Well, I'm sorry. What did people experience that made them trust him? He could preach. He could communicate.

    Man, he could tell a story like no one else. He could organize. He could motivate. He could believe that he believed in evangelism. He believed in reaching people. He believed pastors should work and do the work of the ministry. He believed churches should grow. And that gave young men a system.

    Brett, I was listening in preparation of this. I listened to a lot of Jack Hiles' preaching. And I didn't listen to Jack Hiles preaching growing up. I didn't know his cadence and sound and standard of how he laid things out.

    But man, the more I listened to him, the more I heard Eric Capace, my own pastor in college, the same cadence that he had. And then I came across a clip of Jack Scott.

31. 29:22

    And man, it was like the same exact cadence. And Jack Scott talking about how the doorknob story, about how he went up and he touched the doorknob, the Jack Hiles touched before years of ministry. And I still haven't washed my hands from the day.

    And boys are doing the same thing and coming up to his doorknob of his door. But man, the cadence and the sound and the rhythm was just like Jack Hiles. They were mimicking and, I mean, really replicating exactly how this was.

    And for a young preacher who had never built the church, who had never been in this type of ministry, this would be incredibly attractive.

    Hiles said, I'm not just going to tell you what to do. Hiles didn't just give them sermons. He gave them a blueprint. And he said, this blueprint that I'm going to give you is going to be powerful for you to replicate because it's easy.

32. 30:13

    It's understandable. You don't have to have a Greek or Hebrew degree. You just get to look at it and say, this is what I'm going to do. Exactly.

    And you see, the danger isn't that a pastor is influential. Many pastors are influential. That's kind of the point. Paul was influential. Peter was influential. John was influential. That's not the problem. The problem comes when the messenger becomes inseparable from the message. When loyalty to the pastor becomes equal with loyalty to God.

    When questioning a method becomes questioning God. When disagreeing with leadership becomes rebelling against scripture. When the institution becomes more important than people.

    James, let me ask you, at what point does honoring a spiritual leader become unhealthy loyalty?

    You know, as you walk through this, when you begin to put that old man's preference and ideology and statements above what Christ has commanded us to do and what scripture has commanded us to do.

33. 31:19

    Now you've created an idol out of this man. You've created a statue in front of a church building about this man who grew this church to be a foundation. And all of a sudden, you end your prayers by praying to Jack Howells instead of praying to God. Exactly.

    How do you teach people to respect their pastor without teaching them that their pastor is above accountability? You know, it's crazy. Yeah, it's a tough balance. I was talking to a friend of mine this past week. Went out to lunch with him and was telling him, you know, pastors need respect.

    They have to have accountability. And oftentimes, pastors, we get scared because we're afraid that someone else is going to take our authority. And we, this is what happened with Jack Howells.

    He wanted the authority. He wanted everybody to tremble under his voice. He wanted people to worship the door handle that he touched, the floor he walked on.

34. 32:13

    And he wanted him to be carried in on chariots held up by college young guys. He wanted the house girls that surrounded him to be worshiping him. This is what it was all about. And all of a sudden, they went from respect to idolizing.

    And it's hard to have any accountability when that happens. So, Jack Howells at 100. Brett, Jack Howells died February 6, 2001, after complications following a hurt surgery. I was 74 years old. You were there. You experienced the grief.

    What was that like? Did you go to the funeral service? What did all that look like for you? So, I had been there one semester. It was the beginning of the next semester. And they had made me a bus captain. And so, I was in Chicago on Saturday with my division leader.

    And we were going door. It was snowing. We were going door to door.

35. 33:10

    He was showing me my bus route. And he got a call on a cell phone that Brother Howells had passed away. And I just remember just being in shock over what happened. People were shocked. People were scared. People were, you know, distraught over it.

    And, you know, it was a sad time. You know, they love their pastor. They love Jack Howells. But, so, the funeral and everything just kind of came. It happened like I assumed it would happen. But it's what came after the funeral.

    Just, you know, we're still, we're kind of, like I said, I'll never forget. And you've referenced it a couple of times during this podcast. I'll never forget just a few weeks after Brother Howells died on, like, a Sunday or Wednesday night.

    I remember Ray yelling, praying and closing down a service. And he's praying to God. And then, in the middle of his prayer, he starts talking to Brother Howells.

36. 34:02

    Yeah. But, Brother Howells, I know you're up there. I know you're watching after us. And we're going to keep your legacy going. Just starts praying to him in the middle of the service. It really kind of shocked me. But that's just kind of the attitude that they had up there.

    Yeah. You know, and that was even the thing that there are clips of his funeral out. And Ray Young did a big portion of his funeral, from what I can tell. And there were so many times where he was just quoting things that Jack Howells said. And just quoting, like,

    this is the legacy of this man. And, you know, at someone's funeral, I think it's appropriate. But when you begin praying to him afterwards, I think your alignments are a little jacked up. So, today, he would have turned 100. Yeah. Today, he would have turned 100.

37. 34:50

    September 25, 2026. He would be turning 100. In churches, in preaching, in Sunday schools, he's still visible. In bus ministries, in pastoral training, in independent fundamental Baptist churches today.

    A friend of mine just sent me a picture or video of him walking down the hallway of a church. And it was their hall of faith of pastors. And there was Tom Malone and Bob Gray Sr.

    And Lester Roloff and Jack Howells is still right there in the midst of it. He's still on the walls. He's still been preached and taught today.

    In lives of people who loved him, in the lives of people who left the system that he helped create, there are people that have real hurt and real pain from being in that religious system.

    The Preacher Boys podcast has put out the video series that came out on HBO about the praying series.

38. 35:48

    I can't remember the title of it. And we see the ladies that have come out of that system, that came out of Howells Anderson, specifically some of them. And they just turned a blind eye to them because they're just gossiping. And they're just, they're not of any count.

    They're not building the ministry up so they don't care about them anymore. And so the questions sort of that, I wrote out four questions sort of for us to think about. We're not going to answer them on this podcast today. We're not here to go one way or another.

    We just want you to meditate on a couple of things. And then we're going to close it out and give Brett a time for a hot close. He's got a little story here as well. And so the question is, what do you think we should still be preserving from Jack House?

39. 36:30

    Is there anything worth preserving? What should we reject? What are some things that we should reject of his teachings? That he got it from the pulpit and he said, this is how they're going to be. When I said that, it reminded me of my wife when she was raised at Gospelite under a Howes Anderson grad,

    Eric Capace would get up often and say, if I ever get up and I don't preach out the King James, just throw me away. Don't even listen to me anymore. And he would preach about how that.

    And then all of a sudden we went back and visited and we'll be there in a couple of weeks to visit. And he gets up and he's not preaching the King James. And my wife went to him and said, how is it that you can preach that for years from the pulpit?

40. 37:14

    And now you're okay with doing the exact opposite. You know, you've made a 180. You've rejected this teaching. You've changed who you are.

    And, you know, he gave us a good response and an acceptable response. My wife, someone who grew up there. What should we learn from this man named Jack Howes after 100 years of his life?

    And then if Jack Howes taught us anything, what should it teach us about the danger of building God's work around a man? We hope that you enjoyed this today.

    A small little special episode coming to you, telling you about this man that we look to, that has shaped what we do and why we do it, good, bad, or indifferent. He's part of history. And we get to look to him and learn from him.

    If we don't learn from the past, as one brilliant man that I don't know who it is, if we don't learn from the past, we're destined to repeat it.

41. 38:14

    If you know whoever said that, let me know because it came up to the top of my head. We're destined to repeat it if we don't learn from the past. And so we must be vigilant.

    We must be aware of what's going on. We must know these things so that we can set up monuments to teach our children to do the right thing and to lead right. Brett, why don't you close us down with this final story from you?

    100 years after Jack Howes was born, his name is still being talked about. Think about that. That's absolutely remarkable. Most preachers disappear from public memory within a generation. Jack Howes didn't.

    His ministry was too large. His influence was too broad. His methods were too widely reproduced. And his controversies were too significant. So what do we do with a legacy like that? We remember it.

42. 39:14

    We study it. We tell the truth about it. We don't erase the good because of the bad. And we don't excuse the bad because of the good. Perhaps the greatest lesson isn't about Jack Howes at all. Perhaps it's about us. It's about what happens when we place too much confidence in a personality.

    It's about what happens when ministry success becomes synonymous with numbers. It's about what happens when methods become traditions and traditions become undudgeoned. It's about the importance of remembering that the church belongs to Jesus Christ. Christ. Christ. Not Jack Howes. Not any pastor. Not any college. Not any movement. Not any ministry. Christ.

    Men will come and go. Churches will grow and methods will change. Movements will rise and fall. The word of God remains. So on what would have been Jack Howes' 100th birthday, perhaps the best tribute isn't to simply celebrate him.

43. 40:18

    It's to learn from him. To appreciate what was biblical, the rarity. To reject what wasn't. To remember who were helped.

    To remember those who were hurt. To make sure that our children never become so attached to a man that we forget who the Chief Shepherd really is. Jack Howes is gone,

    but his influence isn't. Perhaps that's why 25 years later after his death, we're still talking about it. Not because the story is finished. Because there's still lessons to learn. Found my new name. Found that good grace. Found that healing.

    And the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning. That has no ending. Found that second chance. Found my best friend. Found my forgiveness. Found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. I found my freedom in you.

    Thanks for listening to the 4-Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed the content of the podcast,

44. 41:37

    please do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing the podcast on whatever podcast platform you listen to.

    Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan

    Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan

    Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan

    Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan

45. 41:50

    Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan

    Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Thank you.

Auto-generated transcript · 6,938 words. May contain errors. Select a timestamp to play from that moment.