18. The IFB and the Idolatry of America w/ James Safrit

This is the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring to light the legalism and abuse in the independent fundamental Baptist movement and to encourage believers to grow in grace through the scriptures. Now, here's your host, John Holyfield. Welcome, everybody, to the For Freedom Podcast. I am your host, John Holyfield, and excited about today. I am in North Carolina, and we are excited to have an episode. I've got a chance to have one of my best friends in all the world, James Styrofoam Saferit on the podcast today. And James, say hey to everybody. Hey, guys. How are we doing? Excited to be here today. I live in North Carolina, so I get to live in the Holy Lands all the time. Listen to me. I feel like I'm now a professional podcaster. This setup is unbelievable. I don't know how it's going to turn out as far as the actual end product, but it's really cool right now. We've got the mic stands. We've got the headphones. And I'm like Walmart Bobo brand at home when I normally do this. But James has got this set up here in North Carolina. We're together because we're getting ready to go to enjoy an online conference together, a biblical counseling conference. And so we're getting ready to do that. But we wanted to get together and record an episode of the podcast before we did that, since we had a chance to hang out together and talk about this subject of the IFB. The title of today's episode is actually The IFB and the Idolatry of America. And I know this is last week I interviewed Dr. Matthew Lyon, and we talked about Baptist successionism. And that's the series that I'm in right now. But this is sort of a break. This doesn't have anything to do with Baptist successionism. So this is just sort of like a break episode, a bonus episode. We're going to do this. And then next week we'll get back into the Trail of Blood Baptist successionism stuff. But today we're going to talk about the idolatry of America. Now before we get into this, James does actually have a background in the independent fundamental Baptist movement. He is now a youth pastor in a Southern Baptist church here in North Carolina. But James, why don't you go ahead and introduce sort of your background in the independent fundamental Baptist movement. Yeah. So I was born and raised here in Salisbury, just about an hour away from where I'm at now. And I'm 31 years old now. I've got a wife and two kids. I've got one in the oven and will be born in March. And so we'll have a family of five coming up with that. So we're excited about that. I was saved at the age of five years old. And I went to a church, a gospel-like Baptist church in Salisbury my whole life. Me and John grew up there. And while I was there, I was introduced that it was an independent fundamental Baptist church. The first time I remember hearing the term independent fundamental Baptist was when I was probably seventh grade. Our pastor had came back from a sort of Lord conference. And he had mentioned the statement, well, we've added some titles to our name. We're independent fundamental pre-millennial, pre-trib, fundamental Baptist church. And he went on this whole big rant on all that. But our church wasn't big on titles per se. We weren't big on women wearing skirts all the time. Our youth group, we wore pants. We hung out together as teenagers. So the legalistic side of it wasn't there more so until we got to college. And me and John went to the same college, Champion Baptist College, which is now Champion Christian College, which right now they're nowhere near where they were at when we were there. They definitely came out of the independent fundamental Baptist world. They're actually a Southern Baptist church in college now. But that's where we were introduced to the not going to the movie theaters, not wearing pants, not listening to CCM, having to burn your music, having to do all the things that is involved in the independent fundamental Baptist world. So after I left college, we got married right after college and went to an independent... And we didn't get married. No, me and John didn't. Me and my wife did. Sometimes my wife thinks that I'm married to John because we do talk almost every Monday after ministry. But yeah, me and my wife got married. We moved to Idaho. We went to an independent church there. They had a school involved as well. And we served four great years there. They weren't really that independent fundamental mindset. It was a gracious church, a gracious pastor. We just... Some things didn't work out. There was some things that happened that just God moved our paths to leave there after about four years. And so after four years, we moved back to North Carolina. And that moment is when I really started trying to understand what I believed and why I believed it. I began talking to some pastors in the area where we were at. I began just getting counsel. I was still in that King James only mindset. And so it took me about two years to really study process. John was part of that with me as I began studying through some debates and some talks and listening to James White and reading his book and just really going through that process of understanding why I believed what I believed. Eventually, we settled at a Southern Baptist church in Kannapolis. And we served there voluntarily. It was not a paid position. And we just served the Lord, taught some Sunday school classes, some small groups on Wednesday night. Until about three years ago in October this month, this church called me. And so we've been here for three years now and just serving the Lord gladly here in the western state of North Carolina. Awesome. Thanks for sharing that, James. James and I do go way back. We grew up in the same church in North Carolina. We've known each other since we were in the nursery together. And been friends through high school and college. And he was in my wedding. I unfortunately was not in his wedding. I should have been. He didn't make time for me. Well, I was in the IFB. And that's why I was. I couldn't leave the machine. Fun fact there. And I don't even know if John knows this. But our parents actually worked the same bus route together when we were both babies. My mom drove the bus. And his dad and my dad helped work the bus route to pick up kids and bring them to church together. So you could say that we were bus babies. Bus babies. Even as we were babies. Oh. All right. So this subject we're going to talk about, the idolatry in the IFB for America. Now let me just say a couple things introducing this subject. Number one, it's not only the IFB that I believe, my opinion, is that makes America into an idol. There are many out there that do so in the evangelical world. Southern Baptists are guilty of it. Other non-denominationals are guilty of it. I believe Robert Jeffress is probably one of the main influencers, I believe, in sort of that idolatry movement of America. And number two, this podcast is about the IFB. So we are going to talk a little bit about that. But we are going to discuss a situation that's happened here in a little bit with James. It's not actually in the IFB, but just talks about sort of, we're going to talk about sort of that mindset that goes on where it tends to be the nation, America, tends to be more important than either the church or our Christianity. And the other thing is just sort of the thesis. I believe that one of the problems that exists in the IFB today is that they have given way to America being an idol. And I think that it was sort of evident, and they just had a conference. And you find a lot of these clips in IFB preacher clips. I'm going to play some in just a little bit. And they just had a conference. And the conference, the name of the conference was supposed to be a church growth conference. But it tended to be, I mean, a huge American flag in the background. And it tended to be a lot of guys just talking about America and the coming election and Donald Trump. Here's a couple of clips from that conference. It would be a good thing if you got every one of your church people to call 10 people of character and get them to vote. You know, there's a concept where there's captains of thousands and hundreds and tens in the Bible. If every one of those people called 10 and every one of those people called 10, we could really do something. I think it would be something that we could see spread out all over our country, starting with us Baptists. Say, why does it start with us? Because we're the standard bearers. That's why. Always have been. The pledge to our flag written by a Baptist preacher. Amen. The reason why we have the freedom of the pulpit, because of a Baptist preacher. Our president, George Washington, baptized in deep water as a Baptist. During the war for independence because of a Baptist preacher by the name of John Gonneau. And at the end of the war, George Washington pointed to John Gonneau and he said, The Baptist chaplains like Gonneau have done more for this war effort than anyone else. You know why? Because he saw John Gonneau time and time again call down the miracles of God and the grace of God upon one battlefield after another after another. Hey, our vote doesn't even belong to us. You understand that, right? It belongs to those men and women that have died. It belongs to our children that expect us to vote wisely. It says in Proverbs 16 and verse 33, the lot is cast into the lap. But the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord. Your vote belongs to God. Our manner of life should reflect that. It should be for others. You say, well, Brother Harding, I want to know what all the different values are. The only thing you need to know is where they stand on life. Because if they're right on life, they're right on just about everything else. And God says in Deuteronomy 13 verse 19, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you. That I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore, choose life. That both thou and thy seed may live. What I'm saying, if we don't go vote by default, we've chosen death. You don't just say, well, I just want to, I don't want to vote for the president. He's not a nice guy. I don't want a nice guy as a president. I want someone that will stand up for America. Well, I don't like some of the words that he uses. Neither do I. But I sure do like what he says. Maybe not how he says it. And by the reports that I've received, he's been saved. And maybe he's just not sanctified yet. Okay? So give him a break. Okay. So there is, there is two, two clips from that. The preaching there. Obviously, there is a, there's an obvious political slant there on who they like, who they want. An obvious rejection of who they don't like. But a more subtle, maybe not so subtle way is one that James shared with me. And I'll play this clip here in just a second. But to set it up, even Paul Chappell out there in West Coast is doing a political fundraiser. And he's having speakers there. Who is that, James? He just had it last week or something. He had Mike Huckabee and Todd Starnes. And I'm not against either one of those men. I listen to Todd Starnes Radio. I reference him a lot. I think he's a great guy. Mike Huckabee, fantastic guy as well. But he had him in to raise money. And thousands of people came. And I didn't really understand. Yeah. And let me say this. James is, James is actually in working towards a, just started a podcast with his teenager on Christian politics. James does not shy away from politics. That's why, one of the reasons why I wanted to have him on here. Because we're going to be talking about the negative effects of this. But at the same time, I'm not, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that a Christian cannot be involved or have political opinions whatsoever. I just choose in this podcast platform to try to keep mine. I certainly have some. But I don't want people to know them. So if James shares something that you don't agree with, then just, hey, listen. We can disagree. I have people, I've already had people on here that have said things that I don't agree with. The idea is that you can learn from people that you disagree with. Exactly. And so Paul Chappell has these two guys out there. Obviously conservative. Mm-hmm. Very much. Very much conservative. So he has Todd Starnes. He has Mike Huckabee. So there's no secret where they stand politically. But the other thing I'd say, too, is this is supposed to be a fundraiser. And I'm sure these guys didn't waive their speaking fees for coming to speak at this conference. And these, they, it's not cheap to have people like these guys in. No, I would assume not. Maybe, I mean, Todd Starnes may be more on the cheaper side than Mike Huckabee. I think Todd Starnes is actually a member of West Coast Lancaster Baptist Church now. I think not 100% on that. I did see something the other day where he joined the church. But Todd Starnes self-identifies as a Southern Baptist. So I don't know why he would be joining an independent Baptist church. Well, the other thing is that, okay, so Mike Huckabee used to be a pastor in Arkansas. Pretty sure he's not King James only. I know Todd Starnes isn't because he sometimes will quote verses on this podcast. Right. So my question is, would Paul Chappell have like a David Jeremiah or a Chuck Swindoll, who's not King James only, who's great Bible preachers, come preach in his pulpit? I'm not Paul Chappell, but I've been to his conferences, and I would pretty much definitively say no. No, no, he wouldn't. But as long as you're talking about America, it doesn't matter if you're King James only or not. It doesn't matter if you agree with the IFB standard or not. You can come speak. And so this is where America trumps, sorry about the pun, it trumps your standard. And that's why I think that it becomes an idol in this. Now, I think Christians are led astray a little bit by the use of Matthew 5, 16. Now, in the book, I'm going to be referencing a book here. It's called Fool's Gold, Discerning Truth in an Age of Error. The general editor is John MacArthur, but there are several different authors in the book. And there's a chapter in the book by Phil Johnson and writing about the Christian's approach to politics. And he talks about this verse in Matthew 5, 16 that many Christians use to justify their reach out in politics and that Christians should be doing this. And Matthew 5, 16 says, In the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. And so the adage goes that we need to be letting our light shine by getting involved and voting for the right people and marching for this cause and that cause and those types of things. But the problem is, is that this is not exactly what this is talking about in context. I'm going to read you a couple of quotes that Johnson writes in this chapter. Matthew 5, 16 in its context is basically that Jesus was not talking about our political activism at all. This is not about mobilizing our clout as a voting bloc, organizing mass boycotts and protests, or electing Christians to public office. Jesus was calling for holy living at the individual level. He goes on to say, There's no suggestion in our text that the church's mission is to commandeer the apparatus of secular politics in order to wield our collective influence in society by legislative means. If you have the idea that's the best way or the main way the church is supposed to make our presence felt in secular society, you have missed the point of the text. If your hope for the future of our society rests in the democratic process, or if you think the fortunes of the church rise or fall according to which party is in power, you need to look again at how people, how the people of God have historically made their influence felt in society. I want to read a couple more quotes, but I want to stop right there. James, what do you think about that? Yeah, I think that a lot of times in our situation we do use that verse of that Jesus is talking about our witness, not our political agenda. We shouldn't make sure that people shouldn't know us by the R or the D beside our name. Absolutely. They should know us by Jesus beside of our name. If someone looks at you and says, that's a good Democrat, then you've failed in your mission as a Christian. Your mission as a Christian is someone to say, man, that person loves Jesus. And I think that's what letting your light shine before men is actually meaning there. Yeah. Is your ministry at your church about getting people to your point of thinking politically? No, never. So is it safe to say that it's completely okay to have Christians serving in ministry at your church that are liberals? That's fine. Right, right. Nothing wrong with that. Okay, and so if we do see problems in our culture, we do see unbiblical problems in our culture, what's the best way to fight that? Well, the easy answer is the Bible. The Bible or the gospel. Yeah, exactly. The gospel. They need the gospel. They don't need our political rallies or some candidate that we've lifted up as the guy who's going to turn the nation around and make it great again. I'm sorry. I just said it. I know I just said it. But I think that we've missed the boat. And I know I've directed this at the IFB, but I feel like that I'm talking to everyone. But I think that we've missed the boat when we place that burden on a candidate, on a person. I mean, really, how much can a president really do? Yeah. Well, right now he's sick and he's still legislating. But I do understand it. And I think that even this morning as I was listening to Al Mohler's briefing, he said, you know, even the economy does shift when a president is sick. The stock market goes down. So there is a lot of stock in that office. And I think valuing the office above all is a good thing to do. Yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. Yeah. I agree. All right. So let me finish some of these quotes by Phil Johnson. And James is going to read a couple of quotes from an article from Nine Marks. It says, On the other hand, when influential Christians have tried to steer the church into the political process, their testimony has failed. And they have actually lost influence. Jesus is simply describing, in this text, the natural God-ordained process by which all of society is blessed and influenced by the presence of faithful believers who serve as salt and light and a corrupt and sin-darkened society. Personal holiness, not political dominion, is what causes men to glorify our Father who is in heaven. James, would you agree with that? I agree. Now, does that mean, should we take from that, however, that we should not be involved with the political process or we should keep silent about politics at all? No, I think that it is our civic duty to address issues. Okay. Yeah, I totally agree. Because who gave us this country? Yeah. God. God did. All right. And who gave us what we have, the freedom we have? Yeah. Yeah. So we are stewards of that. Yeah. And I think if someone, whether it was church, whatever, if someone came and began to, you pick the issue, immigration, education, whatever, abortion. And when people began talking about those things, I think as a Christian, it's our civic duty to tell our beliefs through the Bible, through the lens of the Bible. And so I believe that that's where a lot of times we've gotten to this point where we get to the point where we feel like we have to justify our point through the lens of America versus the lens of the Bible. Okay. Yeah. That's really good. We, we, yeah, I think that, and that's where that idolatry comes in because we, we say things like we're America first and, and all this, you know, we've got to keep our country great. Well, we're, we're Christians. And I don't know how many, I don't know how many conferences you've been to. I've been to several America rallies. I've been to several, uh, wake America, I've been to one awake America conference. Um, and more times than not, I'll hear it said, uh, they'll, they'll be talking and what George Washington, Thomas Jefferson said this. And, and I've quoted other people before, but more times than not, we quote our forefathers before we quote our actual father in heaven. Mm. Mm. And it's a sad day when, when in America we're preaching and we're quoting people that aren't in the Bible. Mm. More than the Bible. Uh, a guy named Bruce Ashford wrote an article on this subject too, and it's on the Nine Marks website. Now I'll try to post a link to that in the show notes, but he said a couple of things. I'm going to have James, uh, uh, read a couple of quotes that, uh, Bruce Ashford said concerning this subject. He says on the right, social conservatism tends to idolatize, uh, tradition and in doing so sometimes refuses to recognize certain aspects of our American heritage as evil. Classic liberals and libertarians tend to enthrone the individual and individual's liberty so that all social institutions derived from the individual are subject to his or her whims and desires. Nationalism tends to give divine status to a nation, state, or to an ethnic community within the state, and in doing so sometimes perpetuates injustice towards those who are not part of the end quotation groups. Likewise, on the left, progressives, progressivism ironically defies progress. Socialism idolatizes, idolatrizes common ownership or material equality. Even democracy, which is a good form of government, can lapse into idolatry if the people convolate their voice with the voice of God. He then goes on to say, we are keen to recognize the problems inherent to other people's politics, but not in our own. I think that's absolutely right. And this is the thing that you see in the IFB. The IFB has a worldview, if you even want to call it a worldview, that the only viewpoint that is correct is my viewpoint and this America political conservative viewpoint. And there is a Republican, and there's nothing of value, there's nothing good in any other, and there's nothing bad in mine. And I think one of the things that Ashford just pointed out that James read that I thought was fantastic was there's good and bad points in every single one of them. 100%. Liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Progressive. They all have things that maybe look more biblical than others, and they all go off the rails on things. Mm-hmm. Well, I love that last statement that I read. We are keen to recognize the problems of other people's politics versus our own. Very plainly, Jesus talks about that when he says, you've got a brother that comes to you with a splinter in his eye, and you're pointing out that splinter, but yet there's a log stuck in your eye, and yet you won't talk about that log in your eye. And the best illustration I ever saw of that was a guy who actually literally picked up a piece of wood and put it up to his eye, and the weight that it would take to carry that log around would be exhausting. And it would tear you down to carry that log around because it would hold your head down. You're going to have to hold it up to hold your head up. But yet this little splinter, you're going to call the splinter out versus the log that's in your eye. And so many times we, as individuals, as humans, get rid of the politics. How often does someone do something, and we call that sin out, but yet our sin is so much greater if we look at the greatness of sin or whatnot. But we don't confess our sins. We don't get right with our sins, but yet we're so easy to call out other people's sins. Do you see that? Let's go back to the point of the episode. Do you see or do you think that that is—is that what the IFB is guilty of? Do you see that in some of their preaching and some of the way that they—the mindset that they teach? Yeah, I can definitely see that in their mindset, and you can see that in even some of the other ones. But we're specifically talking about the IFB. And in my professional 25-year career of the IFB, it's not a long strand, but the majority of my life was in that movement. And so that's the majority of what I know. And I can see looking back through history of being at chapel, being at conferences and being at different things, that they do idolize and they do lift up their side of the story. And then all of a sudden, when they begin to talk about the other side, it is just the worst possible. Yeah, it's a joke or it's made fun of or type of thing like that. And what you teach people, you teach young people in this type of thing, is how they view the other side is not to engage but ridicule. Yeah, to criticize. Yeah. And so then you have a young generation growing up that does not know how to interact with someone that disagrees with them. Yeah. And even in that same point, I took a teenager who's actually at Southeastern right now. And when we went through the tour and he began, the guy was talking about the classes. He said that he's in a class right now, the tour guide, said that when they would debate an issue, King James only, whatever, you pick the issue, abortion, whatever. He said they would bring in several people that were either for or against it, professional people. And they would see and hear both sides of the argument in a college classroom. And the teenager that was with me, he said, did you ever have a class like that? I said, no. Why would we do that? We had a class that told us why the King James was the true, perfect, holy word of God. We had a class that told us why we should do what we do. And when we questioned it and said, well, you know, we're learning Greek. Why do we even have to learn Greek if the King James is the perfect translation? We were liberal. We were crazy. We were charismatic because we even questioned. Yeah. You don't get that question. Yeah. And so when that was even brought up, I was thinking, man, how great would that have been to be able to hear both sides? Not just one side of maybe it was true. Maybe, I'm not saying it wasn't true, but sometimes it's good to hear both sides. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's how you solidify. I think it's the best way to solidify how you defend what you believe. Yeah. It's knowing the other side. And not just knowing the other side of what you, I think this is one of the biggest problems Christianity has had with false other religions and cults. Is they think that they know, but they won't even listen to what the other side actually teaches. Yeah. It's like, okay, we disagree with Islam. We, as a believer, as a Christian, I would say that Islam is a false religion. How many Christians that would get up there and fight Islam and rip Islam have actually sat down and talked to a Muslim? Yeah. You know, I've heard this said by Tony Hudson, you know, every Islamic person is a terrorist or kin to a terrorist. Hey, man! I just wonder how many Muslims has he interacted with. Yeah. And, you know, when I, I made it a point, and I wasn't the best at it. I'm not saying my track record was great. But in Idaho, the Mormon population was huge. Uh-huh. And so, I had a Mormon Bible, which their Bible was their Mormon Joseph Smith's copy of what he thought. And then the King James Version attached to it. And so, if you didn't know what the Mormons believed, they could get you in a trap. Because they knew the Bible that you had in your hand. And so, I made it a point to talk to ex-Muslims, to read the Muslim Bible, to read whatever their scripture was, so that when I had those conversations, I was at least knowledgeable in what they were talking about. Right. And I think so many times in my upbringing, it wasn't, well, you just get up and preach that they're wrong. Okay, if they believe they're right, and you can't prove them wrong through the, they have the Bible there. They have the King James Version. If you can't prove them wrong, then just saying they're wrong isn't going to change the fact. It's like someone coming to me and saying, America's bad. Okay, prove it. Well, it's just bad. Well, can you prove it? No, it's just bad. Yeah. I think it stems. It's a bad argument. I think it, yeah. I think it stems from a fear of control. Yeah. We have to, you know, if they find out, or if they do, we don't want them leaving this. And it's a fear of letting people be individuals. Yeah. No, but they have to be just like us. That's cult control. And I'm not, okay, don't sit there and say, you just called the IFP a cult. No, I'm saying that type of thinking is cultic thinking. Yeah. I didn't just call every IFP church a cult. Okay. Calm down. All right. I think there was one more quote by Bruce Ashford. Number three. That was number three. We are keen to recognize the problems inherent to other people's politics. Oh, okay. So you read that. All right. All right. So James has actually a testimonial story. It's something that's been going on here. Now, this is not IFP. No. But this just sort of shows the America, you know, persecution complex. This is America. This is my America. And let me say this as I'm setting this up. We're not even against patriotism. You know, I think that patriotism is a Christian value. I think that, you know, God has given you this country. God has given you the place that you've lived in. He sovereignly puts you there. Then you should be a good citizen. That's in the New Testament. Yeah. That's Romans 13. That's Titus 3. Okay. We should be good citizens. We should be patriotic. But when we elevate that over our Christian responsibility, over our, you know, responsibility to the church, I think that we have gotten way out of balance in a dangerous way. And so James has, you know, he's been involved in a situation here in his county. James, you want to talk about that just a second? Yeah. So it was back, we're in October. So it was about a month ago or so. Yeah, it's the first of September. And before school starts every year, I go to our local elementary school and middle school. And I just ask if there's anything that we can do as a church to help. Sometimes we provide, we always provide meals for the staff, teacher work weeks and things like that. This year for the elementary school, we partner with two churches to provide every student, every school supply that they needed. So we invested some money. We went out and bought everything. When they came in for open house, everything was provided for them. Just wanted to be a blessing to them. And so when I went to the middle school, our principal said that she had a couple of needs. And one of the needs was a planner. And so my understanding was that we could do anything that we wanted. And so we passed in conference and we told her we were going to buy the planners. And we were going to, I didn't tell her this, but we put some Bible verses on the back of it. Some of our church members wanted it. And it was passed in conference to do. But why did you do that? What were you, you were told that it, didn't you, you asked if it was okay. Well, you asked if what, what did you need to do? Yeah. I asked what could we do on the planners? And she said, well, if you're providing them, you can do anything you want with them because you're paying for them. And so I said, well, we're thinking about putting our name on it. We're thinking about putting maybe an encouraging message just depending on what we can do. And she said, okay, that's fine. And so when I told the church that, they said, well, why don't we put a Bible verse? I mean, what better encouragement message can you give than the Bible? And I said, that's great. Yeah. So we put Philippians 4.13. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And Jeremiah 33.11. 11.33. 33.11. Yeah. Where it says that, I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you, blah, blah, blah. And so all of a sudden, we put those on there. They come into the school. And the school sort of freaked out. They didn't call me. And they just decided to cut the verses out and supply them to the students that way. And so the local news media got a hold of it. They ran articles. I've had people from Australia, Finland, Iceland that have emailed me and said they're praying for our church and our community. Just a big uproarce. But what was the reason why this became such a big deal was because of the community reaction. Yeah. So the community was upset at the school that this had happened. We have a great relationship with the school. We're providing lunch for the teachers next week. So were you upset at the school? I wasn't upset. The only thing I was upset about is why didn't they call me? Right. But if they would have called you, would there have been a problem? Wouldn't have been a problem. I would have told them just take the whole back page off. That way there's no hiding. I would have made a statement to our church. It didn't bother you because they said they didn't have any versions. No. I would have been perfectly fine. But I found out on Tuesday they had already distributed the planners the Friday before. So this is day three of distributing the planners. And now I find out from church members who are calling me, hey, do you know what happened? Well, I've seen some things, but nothing for sure yet. And so then I met with the principal on that next Wednesday. And then they gave their side of the story and said it was a separation of church and state issue. Their lawyer had told them that, or I think their lawyer told them, I'm not 100% on that. And so our church just made a statement saying, and I don't have the statement in front of me, but basically that there was a misunderstanding and that we fully support the school. We fully support what, let me, I'm going to pull the statement up because I think it's worthwhile to read this. Yeah, because while he's pulling that up, let me just say this. James, and you can deny or agree, but you never had, and you still don't have any intention to hurt your relationship with the school because your whole goal, and you shared this with me, your whole goal was to be able to minister to the school, correct? And you still have a desire to do it, right? Exactly, yeah. We want to minister. We want to help out. We've got ministries that minister to those students on a weekly basis, and so we want to be a blessing where we can. And so the statement that we put out was, as a church, we understand that we could provide planners for the school. We could print our logo in an uplifting message. We realized that there was a misunderstanding on our part as well as the principal's part. And we had no intentions of hurting our relationship with the school by putting the verses on the back. Sulfur Springs Baptist Church and East Alexander Middle School are on the same team of helping our communities in whatever way that we can. We love Alexander County and the school community. Love and cry, Sulfur Springs Baptist Church. Now, has this, let me ask you this, has this hurt your relationship with the school? Maybe. I don't know. With COVID, I can't go to the schools anyways. So typically, I would be in the middle school once a month having lunch with my students. They gave me pretty much free access to come in and do whatever I wanted. I could go into the middle schools. We had Good News Club. There were some activities that we did at the high school with a Bible club. So with COVID, we can't do anything. They're not allowing visitors in the property. So I don't know how it's affected because we're not back to normal. If we're back to normal and they said, no, you can't come in anymore, then, yeah, there would be a hurt there. But it's a time for me to go around and hang out with my kids at their school level. When their kids say, hey, who was that guy that was with you? It gives them an opportunity to say, hey, it was my youth pastor that came and wanted to spend time with me. So it's a way for them to share their faith just by me being there. Yeah, and I guess the point that I'm trying to make is it seems that the adverse reaction of the community at large, which is not your reaction and not the school's reaction, seems to have been almost sort of created a little bit of tension between the school and you guys, which you never wanted because your goal still remains to be able to share the love of Christ and minister to them. But it seems like some people, and I say this because I've seen some of the news reports, some people now have the school deemed as the enemy. Yeah, exactly. Is the school the enemy? No. No. Neither one of us are the enemy. There was a misunderstanding. But all of a sudden when we get this place and we put such a high regard of America in our life and we put this such a high regard of my freedoms, Christians have been persecuted since the day that Christ was there. And yet when little persecution falls on us, we began to say, well, my American right. Well, God never guarantees you your American right. He guarantees you your religion and he guarantees you Christianity. But all those that follow him will suffer as he suffered. James, preach it. So, yeah. Yeah. He said, I've been preaching through the Gospel of John, and he told the disciples, he said, you know, the world hates me. Guess what? They're going to hate you. They're going to hate you. Yeah. So expect it. Taking up your cross wasn't putting a cross around your neck. Oh, he just said it. As much as we like that symbol and we cherish that symbol, no one in Jesus's day would have put a cross around their neck and said, hey, I love my cross. Now, we love it for other symbolisms, but taking up your cross meant you're dying. So. Yeah. And so this brings me to sort of the balanced approach. I go to the balanced approach. And Johnson says in his, this is the last quote I want to share about Phil Johnson. He says this. He says, Yeah. Yeah. That, that was, that was hardcore right there. Yeah. I think Ashford has a good balanced approach that wraps it up. And yeah, it says this, but as Christians, we must have the humility to recognize that we all are prone to wander. The Bible, the great song that says that prone to wander. Come thou fount. Yeah. Come thou fount. And that our political views may be very errant than what we actually realize. I wonder if, if we, if we, and I'm talking, I know that this is supposed to be about the IFB, but I want to, I want to make this a little bit personal. I want to talk about us. How many times do we take a step back, stop and say, could I be wrong on this? Yeah. Could I be wrong on this? Could I be wrong in, could I be wrong in my interpretation? Yeah. Of the Bible? Could I be wrong in this political viewpoint that I believe agrees with the Bible? Could I be missing that point? Yeah. And so many times I think that, you know, as a 25 year old man, for myself speaking, I can't speak for your audience. I can't speak for my church. I can't even speak for my family. But I know for me, there was a moment in my life where I said, you know what? I believe in the Independent Baptist Movement because I was born into it. I believe in the King James Only Version because that's all we ever heard. And it came to a point in my life where I said, I need to personally study this out. I tell this to my teenagers all the time. Don't just believe what I say. Go and study it for yourself. Just because your youth pastor says it doesn't mean it's the God's honest truth. We're human. We make mistakes. You have to go to the Bible yourself. Read that same scripture. Read that same thing. And maybe I was wrong. Yeah. I like what Eric Skorzynski says. I used to say, question everything. And I like the way Eric Skorzynski says it. He says, truth will always find its light. Yeah. So if we question everything, we should be able to find our way to the truth. Yeah. It will be exposed. I think there's one more quote by Ashford to sum this up. It says, we should never allow our witness to be undermined by our inordinate allegiance to a political party or an inappropriate forms of activism on the behalf of the party's agenda. Now, let me ask you this, James. Do you think politics are hot topic issues that people can get really upset about? One thousand percent. Exactly. So if we view the other side, and I think there's many on the left. Let me say this. I think there's many on the left that think that how they may think this way. How could a Christian vote for Donald Trump? And there's many on the right that say, how could a Christian vote for somebody that supports abortion? Yeah. Right? So if we think that the person on the other side is an unbeliever, why are we so quick? I say, wait. Why is someone in the IFB, why are you so quick to then landblast them and turn them away from the gospel that you want to preach? Hmm. Yeah. Any closing thoughts? You know, I just think that as a balanced approach, we need to... Okay. As a balanced approach, I think we need to really take the Bible and make it our guidebook. Me and the teenager, we're starting a podcast, like John mentioned earlier, and it's called the Christian Politics Podcast. And it's taking the Christian biblical view of what the Bible says, and we're taking main party line platform agendas, and we're taking the Bible to them. Not necessarily our own thoughts and conviction of what we've been told, but what the Bible says about life and abortion, what the Bible says about marriage, what the Bible says about all these other 13 issues. And so I think there's a balanced approach, but so many times we let our own agenda, our own thoughts, our own misconceptions guide us versus the Bible. So I think the balanced approach is going to be finding the Bible, getting back to our guidebook, what God says is perfect, and following after that. Which is our encouragement and our challenge and our charge to those that maybe find themselves guilty of this or are in the IFB that, you know, check it with the Bible. Always. Go to the Scriptures and check it with the Bible. And I'll say this, and then I want to move to the speed round with James. Speed round. Speed round. Oh. I'll say this. I'm going to quote Brian Edwards from the RFP. He said one day the future end result of America and its flag is going to be burning in fire. Because whenever Jesus recreates this earth and turns it into new earth, that's what's going to happen to it. You mean to tell me that there's not going to be an American flag on the right-hand side of Jesus? Like you just ruined my picture of heaven, John. I've always imagined Jesus standing there with God and the Holy Spirit, his 12 disciples, the 12 tribes, and the American flag just sort of particularly placed right there in the center of that whole ambiance. Is that not going to be there? Yeah. I don't think so. I don't think so, man. I'm sorry. I do think that we've probably made some people upset with this episode. I'm sure. But know that if we have made you upset and you've made it to this point, we're saying these things that I've loved through the Bible. Yeah. My love for the Bible outweighs my love for America. I'll tell you what, I think that if anything, if we can get to a point where we can listen to the other side and listen to people we disagree with and not flip our lids. I watched a documentary on Netflix the other day and I still can't get over it. I'm recommended to anybody I see. It's called The Social Dilemma. Have you watched it yet? No. You've got to check it out. And it really talks about how these social media companies have really influenced the nation through their artificial intelligence algorithms that they got. It's a little bit scary, but, I mean, they really talk about how divided we are. And it's not because of a political candidate. It's because social media has really did a number on this next generation coming up. Yeah. And us, too. And disseminating a lot of false information. Check it out. The Social Dilemma. That's my recommendation for the week. But now I want to get to the speed round with my main man, James. All right. So, James, you ready for this? Seven questions. Let's do it. Seven questions. Here we go. James, number one, your favorite movie. Favorite movie. I would probably say The Very Last Avengers, Endgame. Endgame. Endgame. It's my favorite movie. Endgame. Endgame. Ah, that's such a good movie. I cried. It was great. Yeah. It was great. It was Tony Stark. You know, it was emotional. Yeah. Seeing this kid there as a parent. You know, that's tough. Yep. All right. Number two, your favorite sports team. Favorite sports team? Well, I'm going to go with my main man, the Dolphins. The Dolphins? I have a Miami Dolphins through and through. And so, if you go in my office, I've got a Miami Dolphins Dan Marino card, a picture of him. I've got a Dolphins thing in my house. I'm a big Dolphins fan. What's their record right now? I think we're one and two. One and two? They've won a game? We've won. Yeah, we've won. I'm pretty sure. Who's their quarterback? It would be Mr. Fitzpatrick. Ryan, the beard. The beard. The beard. Okay. Yeah. All right. Number three, favorite food. Favorite food? Well, I'm a foodie, so I like all food. I don't know how I define that. My favorite meal? Is that what you're asking? Yeah. My favorite meal that I think is going to be served in heaven one day will be K&W. Livers. Because they have the best chicken livers known to mankind. With a side of okra. We are not going to the same heaven. We are not going to the same. What in the world? A side of okra. Their chocolate pie. Because their chocolate pie is out of this world. And a fresh biscuit right out of the oven. Alongside of all that with their sweet tea. I mean, I don't think it gets much better than that, John. I don't know you anymore. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I'm going to go K&W. That's my go-to. My wife takes me there for Father's Day because she knows that's one of my favorite meals. So, yeah. Livers? Did I hear you right? Chicken livers. Chicken livers. Which I'll eat all livers. KFC, anything. I love chicken livers. Okay, moving on. Beef livers. Stop with the livers. Okay. Favorite snack. Salty or sweet or both? Give them both. Alright. My sweet snack is going to be my go-to M&M's. I've got boxes. Regular? Regular. Okay. And my salty ones. This, I'm not a big salty snack guy, but this past year on vacation, my sister-in-law, she pulled out these snapped Cheez-Its. And they're like baked Cheez-Its, like really thin. And it was extra cheesy. And she was like, hey, you want some? I grabbed some. And I ate almost the whole bag. And so as soon as we got home, I was walking through Walmart and I grabbed another bag. And so now my wife knows I'm not a snacker. I don't like eating a lot of snacks. But if there's a bag of those chips around, I'm going to eat the whole bag. Oh, my gosh. It's so good. I may pick up a bag on our way to our conference and snack on that. Alright, alright. We're going to move to a little bit more difficult one. Alright. Favorite Bible story. That is a very difficult one because, you know, I want to give the Sunday school answer, Jesus. Because it doesn't... Well, I mean, a lot of people think Jesus, but if there's a lot of stories in there. If there's a specific story in the life of Jesus. You know, I think really even just in that, thinking through it, I do love relating. Not saying I'm a type of Joseph at all, but I do love the story of Joseph. Joseph and how he went through trials and yet his faith in God sustained. Man, that's the most popular answer, though. Really? Yeah. People love that story. It's a great... It is. It's a great... Man, it can teach you so much. Yeah. Okay, here's another hard one. The last book you have finished. Last book I finished. I've got six on my desk that I'm reading through right now. I packed a new one for this trip. But the last one I finished, I think, if I remember correctly, was John Piper's Risk is Right. It's a small little booklet. I think it's 120 pages. I haven't heard of that one. Yeah. I think it's the last one I read. I just gave it to a teenager to read after I finished it. So I can't show you, but I did read it. Did you like it? I loved it. It was great. Okay, good. Yeah. All right. And here's the last one. Favorite activity to do with your family? Favorite activity to do with my family would probably be, I don't do it as much as I should, but my kids love it when we ride bikes. We've got about two acres of asphalt beside the parsonage, and so they're always on their bike, and they always ask me to ride bikes with them. So I've got my bike, and so we will do that a lot, not as much as I probably should, but that's a big activity that my kids like. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. James, thank you so much for joining me today, the podcast. Looking forward to the next couple of days with you, and we'll get back into the Trail of Blood Baptist Successionism next week. And guys, thanks for listening. Check out the podcast on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and make sure to give it a like, a rating, or share. Leave a review on Apple Podcast if you can. And until next time, to God, not America, be the glory. Come on. Bye. Thank you. Thank you.

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