168. Why Wokeness Matters Finale

I found my freedom in you I found a joy I can't lose And thank God it's true You wrapped your arms around me And heaven broke through From the moment you found me I found my freedom in you Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James Safer and Brad Martin. Welcome back to the For Freedom Podcast. Thank you for joining us today as it is right before Easter, right before Resurrection Day. Hope everybody has a good Easter at their church. And I would like to take a quick survey, James. I'm going to tell you what my favorite Easter candy is. And you tell me what your favorite is. I would have to say at the top of the list, it's almost a tie between Peeps. I love Peeps. Peeps. And the Cadbury eggs. But if as much as I love the Peeps, if I had to make a choice, I would say probably Cadbury eggs are my favorite Easter candy. What about you? If I'm walking down the Walmart aisle and I see a display of Easter candy out, when I pass by the Peeps, they're going to be tempting. I love me some Peeps. Passed by the Cadbury. Not a big Cadbury fan. Allison, my wife, she loves the Cadbury eggs. But when I see the bag of Reese's Peasy eggs, the Reese's Cup eggs, there's just the amount of peanut butter to chocolate ratio in the eggs versus the original cups. They're better. I don't know if it's because they're more fresh and they make them and they're right there. Like, you know, they're making them in January and they're out in March and April for Easter. And who knows how long the Reese's Cups have been sitting there. I don't know what it is, but there's something about a Reese's Cup egg that is just delightful. And when I see them, I just, we were packing candy the other day and one of the ladies brought them in and I scarfed down just a handful of them, you know, in a matter of seconds. Didn't have to take any of the black wrapper off the Reese's Cups. And I like Reese's Cups. I'm not a huge Reese's Cup fan. I'm an M&M fan all through and through. Like, you can give me a bag of M&Ms. I will eat my weight in M&Ms. But there is just something about a Reese's Cup Easter egg that is just amazing. Now, growing up, did y'all do the Easter Bunny? No, we didn't do Easter Bunny. We didn't do any of that. You know, we're a hardcore IFB man. We didn't. We barely celebrated Santa Claus. You know, it was, so Easter Bunny was not, and I don't do Easter Bunny now either. So. Well, I did growing up personally. I mean, I woke up Sunday morning, went to the front door, saw the Easter basket there, had the chocolate bunny with all the chocolate and stuff. I mean, we did it when our kids were, me and Emily did it when our kids were younger, you know. But it was still a good time, man. You know, I turned out all right. But, man, the Easter candy is just some of the best candy in the world. And the best thing is to get it on discount. It's like Monday after Easter, you go stock up. Big time. What's your, this is coming out Thursday before Easter. What's your Easter plans for the weekend? What do y'all got going on for the community? Are y'all doing any outreach? Any Easter egg hunts? Anything like that? Well, the Sunday before Easter, we are, you know, we're passing out a door, not, we're putting door hangers throughout the community around our church. That would have already been done when this episode airs. And for church, our plans for Easter are to have, we already usually have church at 10 a.m. on Easter. That's an hour early for us. It's usually 11. Well, this year we're kicking it up an extra hour from that. So we're going to have breakfast. We're going to have breakfast at the church at 7.30. And then we're going to have our Sunday morning Easter service at 9. Now, what I'm really excited about this Sunday is we're starting a children's church. So what will happen is at the beginning of the service, we'll have the kids come down to the front. I'm going to give them a five little Easter, five minute Easter lesson, and then send them over next door for Easter activities and an egg hunt while we do the Easter service in church. And I'm hoping that continues because I've always, I think a children's church would do good in our church. And I'm glad to get an opportunity to start it. I don't mind doing a little five minute thing with the kids up front. Don't mind that at all. So if we can keep this going, I'd like to keep it going. As far as it's like my family, I don't know, we might go to some, you know, usually a church member's family invites us to eat. We're getting done so early. I might have time to go back home. My family lives two hours away. So we might have time to go back home and eat Easter dinner. But we, as far as we personally don't have any plans yet. What about y'all? If you were a good Baptist, you'd go find another service to be at. A later service. I mean, come on now. And then that night you wouldn't be hanging out with your family. You'd be sitting there in a worship service at an IFB church. You'd be having Easter Sunday night service. We learned about Jesus again. Come on now. What kind of, what kind of Baptist are you? Hey, if I was a real tie wearing white dress shirt, wearing independent fundamental Baptist preaching, sin, hating, devil, stomping Baptist, I'd get up at 5. AM and find me a sunrise service too. Brother. I'll be at one of those because that's what we've got planned. We've got, so Saturday will be our big Easter bash. We've been, we've been advertising that right now at the, when this recording comes out, we're actually on vacation with our family. We're in stone mountain, Georgia, hanging out with just the kids and getting away. We've been a while since we've done that. And so we're taking a couple of days to get away this Saturday. We'll be having our community Easter bash. And so we've got to have food and prizes and Easter eggs. Egg hunt, a couple thousand eggs that we're going to have out there divided up in different ages. We're going to have different stations. The kids can go to and do crafts or do games and earn prizes. A little minute to win the games. Just a lot of fun. I get to give the gospel out, talk about what Jesus did for us. And the reason why we're celebrating Easter. And then Sunday morning, very tradition here, been been tradition for as long as I know, as far as the church has told me, when the sun comes up, they do a sunrise service in the graveyard. And so we go to the back of the graveyard, the sun comes up behind me. And so I face the crowd, they're staring at the sun. And they want to be out there when the sun comes up. Well, the problem with that is Brett Easter falls a little later this year. We're near the end of April. And with time change and the April change of how that works. Sunrise here in North Carolina on Easter Sunday is 630 AM. So I've got to be up and ready. And here at the church, 630 for the sunrise service. We try to do that. We do a couple of songs. I give a little 15 minute speech this year. That is going to replace our Sunday school. And so we're going to do Sunday school as our sunrise service. Breakfast at seven. And then the main service at eight o'clock. And then, you know, we'll get done with worship about 838 45. And then I've got like three hours to preach. Cause you know, I was told years ago when I got here that I needed to be done by 12. And so that gives me three, three and a half hours to preach really hard on Easter Sunday. So really looking forward to that. And excited about just digging into the word and letting them have it, you know? Sounds good, brother. Sounds like a logical plan to me. Yeah. I've been telling our church, I said, be ready, be ready. When I first got here, one of our chairman of deacons, he grabbed me and said, brother, I love it. You're preaching good. Just don't go over 12 o'clock. And so when we moved the service to eight, I mean, he's given me permission to go longer. So I love it. That's right. That's how you're supposed to look at that. Yes. We've got some things coming up here pretty soon. I think one of the first things we got coming up is, is Dallas. We've got Dallas coming up in June and we're going to be at Dallas at the Southern Baptist convention. And we want to invite you. If you go to a Southern Baptist church and you're going to be in Dallas or you're around Dallas, send us a message, send us an instant message. Texas, let us know you're going to be there. If we can meet up, we can meet up. And we're going to be both of us, me and James in Dallas. We got our, our house rented and our tickets paid for, and we are ready to go. And for freedom in Dallas. Love it. I can't wait. It's going to be a great time. We've got our house is going to be awesome. We're getting to hang out again. I'm more excited. I think about hanging out together again, that house like we did last year and just being able to, you know, hang out, get to know each other, enjoy some wonderful time of fellowship with our families. It is a great, great time. And then the convention itself is a refreshing time here in the pastors conference and getting to see guys that, that I don't only get to see once a year, hang out and, and really be encouraged. It's a great time to see what, what the convention does and what it's for. And then we've got Israel man is right around the corner as well. Our first deposit, the first initial deposit deadline is coming up in June. And so we would love for you to go to the Holy land for freedom in the Holy land. And it would be a great time for you to join us, to be a part of that. And all of our information's on the website. It's also on social media. You can go to them, look at it. And we would love for you to go. If you've ever wanted to go, if you ever want to be a part of Israel and seeing the Holy land, it's going to be a wonderful time led by two amazing guys, the redhead duo, that's going to be there. And you're not wanting, you're not going to want to miss it. It's going to be a wonderful time, a wonderful experience. And we hope you enjoy you. You, you join us so that you can enjoy. Well, we got to experience just a couple of years ago and get to experience again here in just a couple of months. Absolutely. And don't forget about the four freedom broadcast and the cigar company. Now, let me tell you something about James. James is not a cigar guy. I had to twist his arm to, to get him to do this. Um, um, I had to almost threaten him, but, uh, now that he's, he's agreed to, to go in this venture with me, um, he's happy that he did. And, uh, so we've got, we've got, man, we've got some plans. Don't we, James? We've got some things, some new products coming together, some new lines coming on, uh, on the, uh, and through the cigar company and, uh, some boxes we're going to put together. They don't know if we're keeping that a surprise till later, but I'm still excited about what we got going on. Yeah. Really excited about that. And, uh, we've been partnering and talking with a couple of different people, some church planners, some local businesses, um, to be able to support missionaries in Nicaragua, to be able to help support, support different things through the company that we've got with the cigar company, uh, just finding avenues and ways to give back and, uh, give, uh, to some of those ones that are struggling with some of the church planners that are there. And, uh, so as we get closer to that, I think into the summer, we'll be unveiling a couple of special items for you to purchase and be a part of. Uh, and, uh, so be on the lookout for those things. Uh, but yeah, it's been great. Awesome. All right. Well, I think that's all the announcements that we have. It's about time to get to the episode, ain't it? Let's do it. Here we go. We cannot truly worship God while we stay silent on injustice in all kinds of areas. And I know as a white pastor, I have blind spots. So I am part of the problem. James, Paul elected to unhitch the Christian faith. from their Jewish scriptures. And my friends, we must as well. White people fear black men. That's not fair, but it's true. Jesus repents of his racism and extends healing to this woman's daughter. I love this story because it's a reminder that Jesus is human. He had prejudices and bias. And when confronted with it, he was willing to do his work. I believe in the non-binary God whose pronouns are plural. I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in the protection of the Holy Spirit, I had a fabulous tunic and had two dads and saw everyone as a sibling child of God. I believe in the rainbow spirit who shatters our image of one white light and refracts it into a rainbow of gorgeous diversity. I believe in the church of everyday saints as numerous, creative, and resilient as patches on the ace quilt, whose feet are grounded in mud and whose eyes gaze at the stars in wonder. I believe in the calling to each of us that love is love is love, so beloved, let us love. I believe, glorious God, help my unbelief. Amen. This woke self-loathing. And we will never let the woke left take it away. It's because they're putting woke ideology. To a woke mob that can't even tell you what a woman is. In this season of the For Freedom Podcast, we want to bring to you some enlightening topics that deal with the wokeness of the church. We want to bring to light some issues that are often overlooked. And we hope that it will be a blessing to you in your listening experience. Hey, hey, hey, man, right now. Everybody okay? I want to tell you a story today. A few years ago, while I was in Idaho, I sat across from a young man. I'm not going to mention his name today. This is a true story. He had grown up in church. He knew the songs that we would sing in youth group. He had memorized all the verses. And by all appearances, he was what you would call a good Christian kid. He had even failed to call to ministry. But something had shifted in his life. I could see it in his eyes. They didn't hold the same fire that I remembered when he was younger. He was quieter. He was more reserved. And when he spoke, he was sharp, focused, and thoughtful. He began to tell me how things had changed. It had started in college. He had professors who were kind and thoughtful and deeply affirming. They challenged him to question what he believed. Not with hostility, but with subtlety. They planted seeds of doubt, cloaked in compassion. They asked questions like, do you really believe in a loving God? Who would condemn someone for just who they love? They asked questions like, aren't parts of the Bible culturally outdated? Isn't your faith more about love than doctrine? You see, he didn't abandon his faith overnight. But over time, the questions began to chip away at his confidence. He stopped reading scripture through the lens of truth and starting reading it through the lens of cultural acceptance. What once was convictional became an embarrassment. And what once was doctrine became nuance. What once was sin became authenticity. He told me that he now believed God affirms all identities, all lifestyles. He said that Jesus came to include, not exclude. He said that the church needed to catch up. And then he said something that I'll never forget. He looked at me and he said, Pastor James, I had to choose between being true to myself and being loyal to a church. And I chose myself. And I think Jesus would be proud of that. In that moment, my heart sank. Not because I hated him or hated what was going on or what he was, where he was at. But not even because I was angry. But because I realized something far more tragic than a prodigal son walking away. We were watching and we are watching right now an entire generation reimagine Jesus in their own image. Wokeness, what the world calls compassion, was reshaping truth into something unrecognizable. And the scary part is it felt good and it felt right. It sounded like love, but it wasn't the gospel. It was a gospel with no cross, no repentance, no holiness, only self. Affirming who you are and what you believe. And that's why today's episode matters. And as we conclude this series of wokeness, it matters. Because stories like this young man are not rare like they were eight or ten years ago for me. They're everywhere. They're in churches, they're in pulpits, they're in seminaries, they're in youth groups. And if we don't speak clearly, if we don't speak boldly, and if we don't speak lovingly about what is happening, we'll lose more than just doctrine. We'll lose souls. So stay with us because today we're talking about why wokeness matters and why the church must wake up. Welcome back to the For Freedom Podcast as we discuss our faith, culture, and life through a biblical worldview. As we look at Galatians 5.1 and we see freedom to not be under the yoke of bondage, but under the yoke of freedom that Christ offers for us. Again, I'm James, and as always, we're here with Brett. And we are concluding our series of wokeness today. We are looking at an article here in just a little bit. But Brett, how are you doing today, my friend? Doing good. I'm looking forward to this in particular because it's like everything we've been talking about this season has been building to this. Like this is the, you know, the top of what we're talking about. This is the penultimate point. This is why this discussion matters. I think it's really, really important that we drive this last nail home in this series that we've been in for weeks now. And I'm just looking forward to it. And absolutely, today we're going to be diving into the topic. Simply put, we sort of started the series off with the same title. Why does wokeness matter? Why is it important? Why is this even something we're talking about? You see, this isn't just a trending term or a political label. It's an issue that is deeply impacting the church. Today we're going to look at a New York Times article called Coming Out as an Evangelical Pastor. And we're going to talk through some types or some insights from Al Mohler. He broke this down a little bit on his podcast, The Briefing, a couple of months ago. And as we had already started this topic, as we had already started talking through this, this issue came out. The New York Times had put this article out in the middle of when we were talking through this. And I said, Brett, I think this will be a time where we can incorporate the two thoughts here, the New York Times article, but also some of Dr. Mohler and Joe Rigney and some other guys who have done some work on this and bring to light some things that are going on. You know, we talk, this is the For Freedom podcast, and we talk about the freedom in Christ. And we've covered a lot of the legalism issue and how being freedom, being free in Christ is coming out of that. But when the pendulum swings from legalism to antinomianism, that's bondage as well. And we want to proclaim that freedom is being in the middle, is being where Christ is. And Dr. Mohler here, he offers a profound critique of this article, and his perspectives are going to add to this conversation that me and you are having. Yep, indeed. This is why we are diving into this topic and why it matters. Why are so many embracing wokeness? Why are so many turning away from what they've been taught and what the Bible says is true? And what the Bible says about standing firm in truth, as we looked about last week, with loving with truth. And so as we get started with this, I think it would be good for us to sort of give an overview of this New York Times article. And we'll link this article in our show notes as well. But, Brett, can you give us a summarization of this article? And we'll sort of talk through this for just a moment. Sure. Okay. So this article tells a story of an evangelical pastor who has come out as a part of the LGBTQ community. Okay. Okay. And it frames his journey as one of liberation, moving away from what he sees as the oppression of traditional Christian doctrine. Okay. And the article celebrates his decision, but it actually paints those who hold the biblical teaching. It paints them as outdated and harmful and ancient and paints them in a negative light. Yeah. This is exactly what we've been seeing more and more of. People reshaping Christianity to fit their personal feelings rather than submitting to the word of God. And oftentimes this is what we want to do, right? We want to make God our God and put God in our box and say, this is what I want you to be. And God says, no, no, no. You've got to change your life to fit what I have for you. Right. Because Jesus, the way he's written in the Bible, offends people. Yeah. And so they want to change that Jesus. But the Jesus of that same Bible said, those who are not offended in me are blessed. Okay. This article, it highlights how this pastor's theology has changed over time. You know, it doesn't happen overnight. You don't fall in the pit overnight. It's slow. It's gradual. It changes over time, mainly due to his personal relationships. His emotions and experiences begin to dictate his beliefs rather than scripture, which should dictate his beliefs. Yeah. It really goes through. And the reason why we know this is because the article lays out that he actually documented through a journal of when his son came out of the homosexual and had joined the LGBTQ community and how his soul was crushed by it at first. But as he went through this journey with his son, he realized that he was in error and he needed to realign what he had been taught and told because of what his son was doing. And we can see lots of things. And we're not going to rehash all of it. But that's the key issue. Culture says that your feelings determine truth. But scripture tells us something completely different. The Jeremiah 17.9 says that the heart is deceitful above all things. If we allow feelings to redefine doctrine, we're no longer following Christ. We're following ourselves. I like how John Calvin, I'm not a Calvinist by any means, but John Calvin put it like this. He said that our hearts and he read this verse, Jeremiah 17.9, the heart is deceitful above all things. He says that our heart is an idol factory, that our heart continually puts idols in front of us that we're going to worship. And it's what we put in, do we allow to be put out as idols? If we put in the word of God, then the word of God is going to be what leads us. If we're putting in sin and degradation and wokeness and culture, then that is what's going to come out as the idols that we worship. Exactly. And, you know, Dr. Moeller, he describes the situation as theological collapse. Okay. He points out this isn't just about one pastor's personal journey. It's part of a larger movement of churches compromising on biblical authority. And James, we have got to open our eyes to this and not keep our heads in the sand and see that churches are losing ground today. You know, and, you know, we need to go out. If we're going to go out, go out kicking and screaming against this movement that's happening. Yeah, exactly. Moeller warns us that once a church starts redefining sin to make it more palatable, it inevitably shows up denying core Christian doctrines. We see this over and over again. The issue isn't just the LGBTQ affirming and affirmation. It's the rejection of biblical authority. It's when we begin to change the word of the God to fit our own cultural norms that we begin to see this rejection of the Bible. You know, this reminds me of a story. I was in the gym the other day and the local pastor, the First Baptist Church, Stephen, we might even have him on the podcast one day. He's a great guy. But we were in the gym together and he was listening and working out and lifting dumbbells. And I came over to him and I tapped him on the shoulder. He put his dumbbells down. He pulled his earphones out of his ear. And I said, you heroes on TV. And he turned around and looked and there was Stephen Furtick up there on TV. And he just laughed. He thought it was funny. But then he told me, you know, he used to be straight as an arrow. Yeah, he used to be, you know, preach the word of God down the line. But what changed for him is he went to a conference where Stephen was, where Furtick was, was, was preaching. And he spent the whole conference talking about how we should accept LGBTQ and we're not accepting of them enough. And, you know, talking about that kind of stuff. And he said, excuse me, he said that if he hadn't have been there in somebody else's car, he would have left. And this is the kind of stuff that we have to deal with, you know, and what you talked about earlier. That's a critical distinction. OK, this isn't about one issue. It's about whether scripture is truly God's word or is it just a suggestion? You know, you can, you can listen to it. You cannot, you know, is it a suggestion that we can edit or change to fit the times that we live in? Yeah. And Moeller, what he did was he took this whole thought as we were talking through it and he put it into this shift where it often begins with an emotional appeal. Something happens emotionally. Something happens in a struggle or a sense of dependence that I need to change and we need to be more compassionate. We need to be with which don't get me wrong. Compassion is true. Jesus was had compassion on those. It's a great thing. But oftentimes we mistake affirmation for love. And we talked about that last week in our episode of loving without how to love without compromise. We talked through that extensively. So if you didn't listen, go back and listen to that. So you sort of know the context. And we're going to get to this thought of empathy here in just a moment and talk through what this word empathy means. But oftentimes what happens is we mix these things up. And when we are emotional beings, we're created emotional. And this is the struggle that we begin to have. Right. Exactly. See, real love tells the truth. You know, that was the point of our episode. If a doctor knows a cancer has patient that has if a doctor knows a patient has cancer, but doesn't tell them about it because it might hurt their feelings. That's not love. That's negligence. And the same applies spiritually as well. Yeah. So we're going to begin talking about this sin of misplaced empathy and what this really means. We've actually I'm on a couple of different chat groups. And John had actually put this in one of our chat groups today of is empathy sin. Is that classified as sin? How do we talk through this? And Brett, why don't you give us a breakdown? What does it mean by when we say the sin of misplaced empathy? Okay. So it's when empathy leads us to compromise truth. Okay. We should absolutely care for people and show compassion. We're not saying don't do that. Okay. But it's when empathy causes us to redefine sin or excuse rebellion against God, it becomes dangerous. Like I've heard that before. People say that that empathy is wrong. And I'm like, no, you're supposed to have empathy. But it becomes an issue when it leads you to do something wrong, when it leads you to sin. Yeah. And empathy is a new word. This is something that was recently made up in the 21st century. This has not been a word in our vocabulary. We've had a word for sympathy. We have a word for empathizing and being there for them. But the word empathy has come out of that where it is. We are literally feeling the pain that someone else is. We're putting ourselves in their shoes. And we can do that to an extent. But what happens is we can empathize with someone to the point where we actually begin to sin in that because we are falsely in our mind putting ourselves there. Jesus said this. He said that we should be full of compassion. He was full of compassion. But he said to them, go and sin no more. And empathy celebrates their sin. But the gospel and biblical love calls them to repent and sin no more. So there's a difference between loving someone and caring for someone and telling them that they're wrong and then loving and caring for someone and accepting them and saying, you know what, you're fine with the way you are. There's no reason for you to change. God made you like this. This is what empathy. This is where the empathy movement comes out of. Exactly. And listen, we've seen movements like this before. You know, whether it was the social gospel movement, theological liberalism or the emergent church, each one followed the same pattern. Try to make Christianity more acceptable to the culture and in the process, abandon core doctrines. That's what like our open for this series is got Andy Stanley in there saying unhitched from the Old Testament. That's what he's all about. So we have to take Christianity because we're ashamed of it because it's so ancient. We have to dress it up, cut off all the excess, put bows on it to make it more palatable for, you know, modern tummies. And that's just that's not what the gospel is. Yeah. And Brett, what what happened to those movements? They led to an immediate burst of of growth. And then it led to decline. And then it led to evaporation churches that embrace progressive theology. They lose members. They lose influence because they're not they're not standing on the word of God. And God, the word is what builds a church. If you want a social club, go join a golf club. If you want someone to make you feel good, go to a massage therapist. If you're wanting someone go, go to a counselor that's going to help you. But if you're wanting to learn God's word, if you want to grow, go to where the Bible's been preached. It's not going to be comfortable. As I said this past week in one of my counseling sessions, iron sharpens iron. And in that process, it is a difficult thing. There's sparks, there's pain, there's hurt that goes on. But in the end, it comes out sharper and better than it was before. And that's what the word of the Lord does to us. It sharpens us to the point where we are closer and better. Right. I mean, look at denominations that have embraced progressive theology. The Episcopal Church, United Methodist Church, the PCUSA. They're shrinking rapidly. Why? Because a compromised gospel has no power. Yeah, exactly. The church that preaches what people want to hear instead of what they need to hear is what I just said. A social club with a religious decorations on the wall. I mean, look at, we didn't mention the United Methodist Church. What they just went through with the global Methodist Church coming out of it, which is the more conservative side. And the United Methodist Church okay with having LGBTQ pastors, women as pastors. I mean, just the continuation of really smacking the Lord in the face by saying, your word doesn't matter. We're going to do church however we want to do church is really how I see this issue. And it has led people to hell feeling good. And that's the hard part. Right. Exactly. And the Methodist Church, they're suffering. Like, they're doing good right now because I know we have a bunch of, and you probably have the same issue. We have a bunch of Methodist Churches around us that have, you know, had to buy their property back from the United Methodists. And what's going on is they're having an influx of cash because all these conservative churches are, you know, buying their churches back. But that's not going to last forever. But, you know, wokeness is not just a political issue. It's a theological issue. It replaces biblical justice with social justice and repentance with affirmation. Absolutely. Michael Knowles, I listen to him a lot. He has a book out called Speechless, Controlling Words, Controlling Minds. And if anyone's listening, there's a ding normally right there. Not endorsing the book or anything, but what he talks about is how we have words and we replace the definition of those words with whatever we feel comfortable. Right now, the lingo of teenagers, I've been out of youth pastor work for a year and a half now, and I feel like I'm 10 years behind on language. I mean, they're dropping, my kids are dropping words, and I'm like, what are you talking about? You don't even, your words aren't even making sense. But they know what they mean because they've got this new phraseology of words that have been redefined, right? Skibbity means, these words mean things. And we're trying to figure them out as we go, but they've redefined them in their mind. And this is what happens is love now means approval. We've redefined love as approval. Justice now means retribution. If you're wanting to get justice, you've got to retaliate. You've got to make sure someone gets paid back. Sin now becomes a lived experience. And the gospel begins to get lost in this process because you can't really replace or redefine the gospel. And so we just try to water it down as much as we can by changing the terminologies that we use. And this is what happens in this environment is we redefine these terms and we change what the words mean to fit our own narrative. So, Brett, how do we begin to fight back? How do we begin as the church sees wokeness coming in, as it's creeping in like a weed, a vine that's beginning to wrap around the fruit, beginning to invade the plants that are around? How do we fight back? What are the things that we can do to keep God's church holy and to be appropriate in our messaging as we preach and as we teach and as we do these things? I think the first thing we need is discernment. I think every Christian should test everything against scripture. That's why we're going through this idea of wokeness and talking through this because if we don't test it, if we don't try it to scripture, then we're being just as unfaithful as the ones that are on the other side of this. We have to take what we're hearing and say, what does scripture say and compare it with the Bible's teaching of the church? Exactly. We need to be like those Bereans. Second, pastors need to preach the full counsel of God. If you're afraid to preach truth because it might offend, then you're not a pastor. You're a motivational speaker. Part of the reason why I don't always preach verse by verse through the whole year, but there are times during the year where I take a book of the Bible and I start at the beginning and I preach all the way at the end. If it hits on a subject, I preach on that subject just because that's the whole counsel of God. We need to cover everything, not shy away from stuff just because it's controversial. Like our buddy Osteen. Right. You know, I was one of the guys in my church got me on a show podcast and I've enjoyed listening to it. It's a, it's a, it's a political podcast, but it's, they've actually just redefined to religious and spirituality, even though they're talking about politics. Um, and he made this statement the other day. He said, someone asked him, uh, why are there so many people that are calling in and asking questions about theology to your show? And he said, I believe because pastors are too afraid to stand up and speak the truth. And they're too afraid to go and ask their pastor these questions. And so they're asking me on my show. And I thought, as you said that that's what's going on in our culture. Pastors are not standing up and not preaching the truth and not preaching the full counsel of the gospel. And what is happening is we are just seeing a church that is a hollowed out. Um, and so we've got to be people who are preaching the full counsel. I think the third thing is we need parents who are going to stand up and disciple their children. We need parents who are going to disciple them in a way that Christ discipled his disciples. If we don't teach them biblical truth, someone will teach them something. And the culture says, that's the kids that I want to bring in and teach them the lies, teach them the, the abomination. And, and began, as I said, in that opening story with that young guy in Idaho, where we can come in and we can change and we can teach them a little bit of truth and a whole lot of lie. Right. What did, what did Satan do in the garden? I go to this illustration often. He came in with Eve and he said, did God really say that God, is he hiding things from you? If you eat of this fruit, you're going to be like him. That's why he doesn't want you to eat of it. And, and all of a sudden he gave just enough truth and just enough lie to cause them to doubt and cause them to question. And then we see the recourse of what happens from that. But if we, as parents are discipling our kids and teaching and training them up in the way of the Lord, and then every single day of our life, training them in that way. And I believe that we will see a generation turned around for the sake of the gospel. It's so easy when parents that go to church, they get so used to having, oh, well, my kids go to church. They get it there. And they, they don't realize how important it is for the parents at home to actively disciple their children. You need to read the Bible with your kids. You need to pray for your kids. You need to teach your kids how to pray. You know, you need to take your kids out and visit somebody in the community. You know, these are things that you need to do. And fourth, churches must engage in apologetics. We need to show people how woke ideology distorts biblical concepts. You know, what's going on in our culture and our society. We need to take the word of God and say, hey, look, this is the reason why that's wrong. This is the reason why the LGBTQ crowd is wrong. This is the reason why abortion is wrong. This is the reason why you can't listen to your own heart. And who is the best apologist in the Bible? It was Jesus. Every time Jesus turned around, he asked the Pharisees, have you not read? Do you not know what your scripture says? He said the devil three times. It is written. It is written. It is written. And Jesus constantly went back to that book to defend his position because that's where his foundation was. And we need to be no different. We need to give an answer for the faith that we proclaim and that we believe in. We don't need to just as pastors get up and preach fluff to people or seek out pastors that preach fluff. Because we need pastors who are going to equip us. Give us, like, tell us the modern questions that are being asked today. Tell us how to answer them. Give us the passages of scripture that we need in order to, you know, in order to defend our position. Somebody comes up to us and says, oh, I thought your religion, thought you're supposed to love people. How come you don't love us? Well, you need to be able to answer that. You know, you need to be able to give them an answer. And that's something where we're sorely lacking in the vein of apologetics. I would suggest just get on YouTube and go watch some apologists, you know, in addition to getting at your church. But, you know, go to YouTube and turn on Frank Turek. Go to YouTube and turn on Cliff and Stuart Connectely, you know, and just listen to them. And you listen to them enough, that stuff will sink in. But then you also need to read for yourself. This is an active thing. It's not something where we just sit and listen. It's where we go to church to get bows to put in our quivers to use against the devil later. That's so good, Brett. I'm so glad you said that because I think apologetics is something that is sorely missing in our church. But as Barna put it out in a recent poll, the latest two generations, the Gen X and the Gen Z or the millennial or whatever. Gen X, Gen Z, Alpha, the newest one, which is the next one coming up. They are the most seeking generation that we've had since the boomers, I think is what the poll said. They are asking more questions about religion. They're asking more questions about church and culture than any other generation in like 50 years. And we have the opportunity to tell them truth because they're looking for truth. They're looking for what is true and what is not true. And so we have this awesome responsibility to teach and train up and man with social media and the way that the public square is right now with TikTok and Instagram and Facebook reels. And these simple little small tidbits of truth that's out there. We can share truth through these avenues where we can share a story. We can share an opportunity in that short form. But then in these opportunities for podcasts to share in long form, drawn out conversations where people are searching, people are looking. And we have the opportunity to do that through apologetics and through teaching the Bible and what it says. So, Brett, what are any of the final thoughts on this episode? Wokeness, why it matters and how we can fight against it. And again, Moeller puts out some great things. Joe Rigney's talked about the sin of empathy and this article that we sort of concluded with. So stand firm. You know, wokeness wants conformity to the world. But Christianity calls us to conform to Christ. And those two are not the same no matter what the world says. Absolutely. I appreciate that, Brett. And I thank you for the conversation that we've had today through this topic. Again, it's something that we don't normally and we haven't traditionally talked about. And we may not talk about something like this for a very long time. We felt like it was needed in the culture today and where we're at with politics and different cultures. You know, we can find freedom from this. We can find freedom from wokeness. And we just need to have the tools to be put in our quiver, as you said. You know, if you thought that today's discussion or this topic has been helpful, subscribe, share. 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Got just a couple of weeks left before we go into our summer break and we're excited about what we've got coming up in just the next couple of weeks. Until next time, to God be the glory, great things he has done. Found my new name. Found that good grace. Found that healing. And the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning. That has no ending. Found that second chance. Found my best friend. Found my forgiveness. Found my happiness. I've been singing ever since. Found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the For Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for the For Freedom Podcast. For Freedom Podcast. For Freedom Podcast.

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