136. Freedom In The Church - Missions with Lee Howell

Welcome to the For Freedom Podcast. This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James Saferick and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the For Freedom Podcast. We are here to give hope and help and expose legalism from the Independent Fundamental Baptist Movement. And in this last week and this week we get to talk about parachurch ministries. And we've got a friend of ours coming on in just a little bit to talk through what that is for him as far as missions. And excited about him coming on and us having that conversation. But before we get started, Brett, me and my wife last week, celebrated 13 years of marriage. A wonderful time of just being able to reflect on that, had a sitter come and be a part of that. And watch the kids while we got to go out and have a wonderful time just celebrating each other, be a part of each other. We went shopping. I bought two massive three foot by six foot Super Mario posters and Avenger posters for my garage. And we got some, we watched a movie. Have you seen the new If movie? I have not. Oh, dude. John Krasinski, he wrote it. He directed it. It's unbelievable. It's so funny. It's so good. It's heart-wrenching. Like it's everything that John Krasinski would be. And Steve Carell is in it as well. So it's an office reunion. It's funny. It's so good. And so you gotta, you gotta go watch that if you can. Uh, we had a great time watching it and, uh, just excited about, uh, 13 years. I understand you and Emily just celebrated, uh, how many years? Well, actually you just had an anniversary and we've got an anniversary coming up. Our anniversary is this coming Monday Memorial Day and it will be 18 years that we've been married. And, uh, we actually got married Memorial Day weekend where we would have a three-day, uh, a three-day, uh, you know, holiday weekend every anniversary. Uh, no matter, you know, where we were, cause I was, you know, secular, had a secular job at the time. Um, but what's cool is when me and my wife got married, we were just so hungry cause we didn't hardly eat anything at the reception or anything that day. Uh, we stopped at the first place we come to on the interstate and that was a McDonald's. And then it became a tradition that we have McDonald's every anniversary. So it's a cheap anniversary date and, uh, you know, the quality of McDonald's food has went down over the years. So it's not always fun. Uh, but we try to eat McDonald's at least once. Uh, and even if it's just breakfast, I've got great breakfast. Uh, we try to have McDonald's eats once on our, uh, anniversary every year. This is kind of a tradition, but we're looking forward, uh, to celebrate in 18 years this coming Monday. Love it. I was sure you were going to say that McDonald's food has gotten better and better as the years went on. Yeah. Gooder and gooder. Gooder and gooder. The, uh, their, their breakfast is pretty, pretty awesome. Uh, I do love their, their gravy biscuits are really good. Um, it's consistent every time. Their sweet tea, of course, is going to be sweet everywhere you go. It's going to be like 14 pounds of sugar. I don't know. I don't know who invented the McGriddle. Okay. But somebody that invented something like that has to be a say born again, Christian. Absolutely. And so when I get to heaven, I'm going to give them a big, wet, sloppy kiss. Man. You know, on the cheek, you know, thank you for inventing the McGriddle. I wonder where you're going to go with that. But yeah, cheek is good. Yeah. Yeah. I had to throw the cheek in there. I heard where that was going. I was like, eh. Let me throw the cheek in here. I don't like where that's headed. You know, I used to eat the McGriddles. I don't anymore for some reason. I just, for me, it's just not appealing anymore. My kids love them. They get them. And if we go out for breakfast, they love them and eat them up. It's just not for me. So let me tell you something that's, that's underrated. Uh, the breakfast at Burger King is underrated. Now, let me tell you why. I was a bread man for a year and I delivered to, you know, to Sonic, to Burger King, whatnot. They make their biscuits at Burger King from scratch. I don't know if a lot of people know this, like McDonald's and all, it's all frozen. But Burger King, every morning, they make their biscuits. I don't know why they don't promote it. But they make their biscuits homemade from scratch every day. So the biscuits at Burger King are amazing. Wow. So Burger King, Chick-fil-A, because I worked at Chick-fil-A, and Biscuitville all make their biscuits from scratch every morning. And so that's why Chick-fil-A biscuits are so good as well. They're made from scratch with love and sweat and chicken grease and blood. It's just, it's all there. Like, it's just everything you need. Love, peace, chicken grease. That's right. It's all there and it's in it. And so, uh, it is a, it's a great time. Um, uh, do enjoy me a good breakfast. Most days I just drink a coffee. I don't eat breakfast unless I'm going to eat breakfast with someone. That's just a meal. I just drink my coffee and go based on my driving. Like, I just don't, don't do it. And so, uh, it's one thing I probably should do more of, but, uh, speaking of getting together, Brett, man, we're just a couple of weeks away from getting together in Indianapolis and, uh, hanging out at our, we got an Airbnb just a couple of minutes away from the convention center. And so we're going to be hanging out there Saturday through Thursday and, uh, going to the convention, been looking on some, uh, convention stuff and, uh, reading up on some different, uh, things that are going to be voted on and just trying to get mind ready of what's going on. Excited about that coming up, uh, and, and hanging out with you and your family, you know, I'm asking me a great time just hanging out and talking and, uh, spending a couple of days with, uh, with our families. Um, and so, yeah, looking forward to that and seeing people that we don't normally always get to see. Um, and then what, what else we got going on, Brett? Let's see. After that, we've got, uh, for the sake of the gospel conference coming up November, uh, second and third, first weekend in, uh, November for the sake of the gospel conference at, uh, Hope Church Catoosa, Pastor J.C. Groves. And, uh, we're going to have a great time there. We've also, uh, going to get an Airbnb there. And, uh, hopefully you're part of our X funny community and you'd like to come and be a part of this conference. I guarantee if you make the time to come, you're going to get a blessing. We get a blessing every year, uh, that we come to the conference. And so come out to Chattanooga, Chattanooga area. It's actually Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, but it's just over the line from Chattanooga. Chattanooga is kind of centrally, centrally located, uh, between those of us who were kind of on the west side and the east side of it and kind of meet in the middle of Chattanooga. It's not that far away. And so if you'd like to come to, for the sake of the gospel conference, uh, go ahead and make plans to do that. But what I'm excited about, and I'm getting more excited and more excited each week. It gets closer because I cannot wait to go back. The Holy lands of Israel. I'm sure there's going to be another blood moon before then, probably another eclipse somewhere, which means we're just getting closer to the day. The Lord's going to come back. Can, can you imagine Brett being there at the Eastern gate at the Mount of Olives when Jesus comes back? It could be the first month, the first, uh, the first week of March of 2025. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying it could be. Everybody else is saying when it could be, it could, you could be in the Holy lands when that happens. Would you want to miss that? Would you want to put the risk of not being in the Holy lands when Jesus comes back? I don't know. I don't know if I would. So I think you should sign up. I think you should go with us so that when Lord comes back and while we're there on that Wednesday, standing on that Eastern, uh, by the Eastern gate on the Mount of Olives, when Jesus comes back and takes his church away, you're going to be one of the first ones to go. You know, we're starting a petition through change.org and, uh, we're going to be circling around. We're going to put the, uh, we're going to put the link on our, on our website and, uh, we're going to start a petition to see if they'll put a Buc-ee's over in Jerusalem. And I think that's what's, that's going to help the situation. It's going to hurry on. The Lord's return is a wall of beef jerky and some beaver nuggets. So don't forget about that as well. Absolutely. Can't wait. It's going to be great. Hope you'll join us. And, uh, man, we've been, we have enjoyed this series of in the church. I've enjoyed the feedback and the, the different, um, downloads. I mean, we've had some great turnout of downloads and we appreciate that. We, we don't do this if it worked for you. And, uh, we understand that we try to put out good quality content every single week. And today we have an interview lined up with a missionary, a friend of mine that, uh, we have met back in 2022. And, uh, we, his name is Lee Howell. And, uh, we're going to go ahead and jump right into this interview as well. Well, today we've got a friend of mine coming on the podcast. Uh, Mr. Lee Howell. He is the, uh, director of United Christian missions. And me and Mr. Lee got together, uh, met up in actually in 2022, Brett. And we were going to, uh, go down to Nicaragua and, uh, there was some, some different things going on in the country with political unrest. And so the church I was at, we had planned to go down and then we postponed that trip. And then we canceled the trip sort of like our Israel trip has been going on. Uh, but now things have opened up and I reached out to Lee and said, Hey, uh, want to go down and do a mission trip down there. And so me and Brett are actually partnering to go down to Nicaragua in September. And so since we're, uh, in this series of in the church and talking about missions and parachurch ministries, uh, we thought it'd be a good idea to bring Lee on and talk about, uh, their ministry. And how international missions and, uh, missions with the church can partner together and ultimately help the church or even sometimes could hurt the church. And so we're going to talk through those various things. And so Lee, welcome to the show. Uh, why don't you give us an intro of who you are and, uh, what, what, what your, uh, mission is, uh, with, uh, your work right now. Amen. Well, thank, thank you very much, uh, for that intro. We, uh, so we were, as, as you mentioned, a, a parachurch ministry, uh, we, we come alongside the churches. We try to serve with the churches, help the churches, you know, encourage, help engage folks. Um, but for, for me, I am 44 years old. Uh, my wife's name's January. My son's name is pilot. He's 18 years old. He's graduating from high school. I have a daughter named London. Uh, she's 16 driving, driving cars now. And, um, her and my youngest son, Coleman, which is 12 or homeschooled. Um, you know, just, just blessed with, uh, with a wonderful, wonderful family. Amen. Well, you know, Lee, I want to let you know that it's an honor and privilege to have you on here today. Um, I had a privilege a couple of weeks ago to have a phone conversation with you. And one of the things that impressed me was your attitude towards missions, your philosophy. And in a minute, if you'd like to go more into that, uh, you absolutely can. Um, I was impressed with your stand on discipleship and how there's a lack of discipleship in, uh, a lot of mission programs out there today. Uh, you know, about how we go out to these places and we may lead these people to Christ, but then they've got nowhere to go. As you know, we're called to make disciples. And so, uh, you can go into that in a little bit if you want to. Uh, but, uh, with that in mind, I want to ask you what led you to mission work and what did you do before that? So, so prior, prior to calling in, in missions, um, yeah, I, I went, I went to school and I have a turf grass management degree. Um, and, um, I spent seven years as a golf course superintendent, uh, built and grew in a nature's walk at Chinca pin and cashers, North Carolina. Um, after, after those seven years, I spent 13 years in fertilizer and chemical sales, uh, traveling all over the Southeast. Um, during that time as a salesman at age 34, um, I, I had, I had that conversion moment where, um, God opened my eyes to, in essence, a double life that, that I was living. This, this, this life of trying to be a godly parent, raise godly kids, but also living in the world, trying to please the world with, with the things that I was doing, trying to impress the world with, with, with the things I was doing. Um, and so I, I really had that moment in 2014 when, um, you know, I, I promised God that I wouldn't live those two lives anymore and that I would, I would do whatever he asked me to do. If, if he would, if he would help me in my understanding and make it clear what he wanted me to do, I promised I would do it. Um, and so I, I got to serve in a lot of different ways, a lot of different capacities inside and outside of the church. For about five years. And, and in 2019 was when God really impressed on my heart that, that missions is, is where I belong, that I, that I needed to be serving in missions. And so, you know, a lot of story there, a lot of different things that we, we went through as a family trying to find our place in missions. Um, ultimately what, what took place was, you know, we, we had looked at, at moving and, and going different places and, you know, serving as full-time missionaries. And, uh, there's, there's a lot of things that have to take place prior to that. And we were trying to navigate all those things. And one of the things we decided to do was take a short-term mission trip with David and Nancy Webb out at United Christian missions. And, uh, of course, much like James's trip, the, the trip was canceled that year. And I, I went to David and I talked to him just about my feelings of, uh, just, I was discouraged because I, I kept saying, you know, here I am. I'm, I'm willing, I'll do whatever God wants me to do. Uh, but doors continue to close. And, and this short-term mission trip was another one of those doors. And I, I just kind of reached bottom and I was telling him, I was like, you know, I just, I want to serve God with my life. I want to make him happy and I want to be doing what he wants me to do. And so just a few months prior to that, David and Nancy and the board at United Christian missions had began praying that God would bring somebody to David and Nancy that would be willing to take over the ministry. And, uh, so obviously it wasn't a quick decision. There was some vetting there and, uh, you know, a lot of getting to know one another better, but ultimately David. And Nancy decided to train me as their succession plan. And, uh, so I, I began that training in, in 2020. And, uh, two, two years later, assume the role as a president of United Christian missions. When David and Nancy got, got to retire, uh, they just kind of got to an age. It's, it's not, it wasn't the desire not to serve in that capacity. It was, it was the physical incapabilities. Uh, Nancy had had a knee replacement. David was dealing with, uh, different heart issues. And, uh, it was, it was time to, to pass the baton. I love it. One of the things that, uh, one of our friends, JC Grove says all the time is, uh, the power of someone's story. And I think it's so powerful to hear someone's story and to see God working through their life and God working, uh, through the details that we don't even recognize and don't even know at times. But we look back and we say, man, that was God moving in those directions and God moving my life in those areas. And, uh, so thank you for sharing that. And, uh, so United Christian missions is the organization you're with. It's been around for, I believe you said 17 years. And, uh, they're in a couple of different locations, uh, in your words, what is United Christian missions? And, uh, what are the countries that y'all are impacting? Where y'all at? What do y'all do? Uh, sort of tell us about what, what y'all are in right now. So, uh, I, I like to say United Christian missions exists to evangelize, engage, equip, and encourage. Um, feel like that's, that's the responsibilities of everyone that says that they're a Christian. Um, you know, people, people tell their story, their conversion, how they were saved. If, if you have that story, then, then you, you should also know that you're obligated, you know, to, to evangelize, to go out and share with others. What, you know, the grace that you've been given, um, you know, we, we can't keep in a box what, what we have. Um, if, if we can, maybe you don't have the same thing I have, but, uh, but also we need to try to engage others, you know, to get, to get people engaged in doing God's work and building God's kingdom, because that's, that's what we're told throughout scripture. And then United Christian missions, we, we also are blessed to get to equip folks through like Bible distributions, pastor training, um, and some very intentional discipleship that we get to do through the children in Nicaragua. Uh, and then also, you know, scripture tells us many times that it's our responsibility to encourage the brothers to encourage one another, you know, not, not just seeking the loss, but also seeking ways that we can, can lift up our, our fellow believers. Um, United Christian missions has been, been blessed to get to be a part of Bible distributions and pastor trainings throughout India, Romania, the Philippines, Cambodia, South Sudan, Togo, Kenya, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, Mexico, Colombia. And of course, and of course, Nicaragua and North Carolina. And I, I wrote those down prior to this because I, I get excited and I skipped something and somebody will call me like, Hey, well, what about when you, when you send Bibles out here? But, um, you know, so United Christian missions, Bibles for the nations, we've, we've got to provide over, well, we've got to provide 14,172 Bibles since 2021. Uh, we've got to play a part in the training of over 700 pastors. Um, I like to say we can count Bibles, we can count pastor trainings, we can quantify a lot of things. Uh, but one thing we do avoid is, uh, quantifying salvations. Uh, we're, we're, we're not ever going to be one of those ministries that, um, uses numbers and salvations to. To, to raise funds is, is something I, I feel strongly against. Um, but the, you know, the things that we get to do as a ministry, it, it seems impossible. We, uh, we have me, a part-time employee, the board and a volunteer as far as people in the United States. And, uh, it's just, well, through, through partnerships, through, you know, the name of the ministry is United Christian Missions. Through, through uniting efforts, you know, be it other ministries, other churches. Uh, it's not just the churches in, in Nicaragua, but churches all over the world, including the United States, trying to get us all to work together to get over these barriers that we've allowed to be placed. You know, one thing that drives me nuts is competitiveness in ministry. We, you know, that's Satan's way of dividing us and, and separating us to, to be weaker units of, of the body. Um, so, you know, my, my passion is, is to get us all working together with, with that common goal of, of sharing the gospel, you know, encouraging believers and just learning how to serve. Because a lot of people, especially in the Western church, we've got good at making sure we show up every Sunday morning and, and we've, we've, we've got pretty routine. You know, we can even set our bank apps to, to send a routine check to, to the church. But, but when it comes to actually giving our time, um, and, and getting engaged and being the hands and the feet of Christ, I think we struggle. And, and I think that's something that, that God's put us in place to help with. You know, I'm not going to lie to you this evangelize, engage, equip, encourage. I'm going to rip that off from you. I'm going to steal that. I'm just letting you know ahead of time. Cause that's, that's, that's some good stuff right there. I like that a lot. You know, I've always said, I think it takes a special person to be a missionary. You know, whether that missionary goes overseas, uh, and stays where they travel back and forth. Uh, we support a lot of missionaries that do that. I know that that travel, it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of energy. I know it's a sacrifice. I know sometimes you're with your family. Sometimes you're away from your family, but also know that you're, you're overjoyed in knowing that you're doing the Lord's work. And you're fulfilling the great commission, uh, to go out and make disciples, you know, and making, I think that making a difference in these churches around the world is what we're called to do. We're called to go out in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the earth. And there's so many churches out there that forget about the uttermost part of the earth part. I remember the church that I was growing up to that I went to in college. They were not a mission minded church. I mean, they only supported one missionary and that was because that missionary graduated from that school. So with that in mind, I want to ask you, you know, why should churches do international missions in your opinion? Man. So you, you said the O word. So you, you set me up well. So, uh, my, my, my opinion has changed, um, over the years. And, you know, you get a lot of those questions. You meet with mission boards, you meet with individuals and they say, well, couldn't, couldn't I just send a check? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just send a check or, uh, don't we have plenty of needs here, uh, in the United States? Why, why are you going to Central America and why, why are you doing these things? Um, when you could be serving and working here for people. Um, I, I really liked first John chapter three, verses 16 and 17, where it says, we know love by this, that he laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren, but whoever has the world's goods and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him. Um, how does the love of God abide in him? So, you know, we talked about my story earlier and, uh, I could, I could go much, much longer, but, uh, it, during, during my training with David and Nancy, as, as, as I was preparing to take over the ministry responsibilities, um, I was in Nicaragua and I saw just the vastness. It was, it was so enormous. The impact that God had used the ministry to make in, in the lives of the people there. And for, for me, that's, that's what, that's, that's why I have to go to Nicaragua. Uh, everybody's not called to go to Nicaragua. Um, I feel like we, we can provide a lot of people the opportunity to go and, and serve there. But, um, you know, we're, we're all called to serve in different ways. We all have different gifts and for me going to Nicaragua and serving the people there, serving the churches there is, is what God's put on my plate. Um, and so for, for some of those, you know, I've noticed that say, well, um, why, why aren't you just doing the work here? I like to say, well, maybe you're called to do the work here. Uh, tell, tell me about the ministry that, that you, that you're doing. Um, and, and a lot of times you get crickets. Um, and, and, and as far as the, the send the check question, I get a lot. Um, yeah, we, we'd love, we'd love for you just to send a check. We'll, we'll make sure that your money's put to good use. Uh, but there's also inherently a danger, uh, with thinking that you can just send a check into a world where, um, there, there's very little available funds. And so we like to serve as a safeguard there and to help make sure that, uh, things are done appropriately and that we don't, we don't just throw dollars at it. That's great. One of the things that, uh, I've appreciated in the last eight years of, sorry, being a Southern Baptist is the ability that we get to work together and not separate. I think that, uh, one of the pitfalls and downfalls of many ministries and organizations, like you said yourself is the, the competition game. How many can I get? How much can I raise? What can I do so that I can brag on social media or whatever it may be to, to show that I've got all these different things going on. Uh, but, but as, as Southern Baptist and as what we have greatly loved and appreciated, I know myself, I don't want to speak for Brett, but is the, the value of the word. Of, of cooperation and saying, Hey, we, we can come together and we can work together in this issue or this, um, organization or this, uh, mission minded mindset and do a whole lot more together than we can separate. Um, and so, uh, you know, for, for us, it's, it's for me and our church is what are we doing locally? What are we doing nationally? And what are we doing globally? Sort of my, my three thoughts there. And so doing local projects, doing national projects, but also partnering overseas and, and allowing the church to be in the uttermost. We can't be there 24 seven, like we can in our community, but we can definitely help those that are in those areas. And so, uh, by, by thinking through that, how are, or how can churches and even individuals, how can they partner with United Christian missions specifically, since we've got you on here in spreading the gospel? And I know you've mentioned a couple of things that you guys do, but what are some ways that churches and individuals can partner with you guys? Well, so we're, we're, we're, we're very big on prayer, um, because everything we do is possible because of God. Um, if, if, if you take on any type of endeavor, you're, you're going to have to be submissive. You're going to have to be glorifying God and what you're doing. So, uh, you know, just raising up those prayers, praying for, for the ministry, praying for the, the people in Nicaragua that were blessed to get to serve, praying for our other partners all around the world. Um, we get to work with, with such amazing people. Um, yet we, a lot of times we can't talk about where they are, what they're doing. Um, we can't share pictures because of, you know, face recognition and social media and things like that. But, you know, our most powerful weapon in this spiritual warfare that we're in is prayer. Um, so definitely, you know, be praying for, be praying for missionaries. Uh, I'm sure your churches are probably telling people weekly or monthly, Hey, be, be praying for these missionaries. We'd, we'd, we'd love to be on that list, uh, you know, of, of ministries that you're praying for. Uh, also you can, you can participate. Um, like I say, getting people engaged has, it has such a power to it that, uh, we, we can't understand, but you can't always determine. And who's going to, who's going to grab hold of it and run with it and, and who's not, but, you know, just trying to get people engaged in serving because there's, there's something about the simplicity or the, the privilege to go somewhere where, you know, that the people are there because of, you know, their circumstances. Um, or what's so crippling, it's not necessarily their decisions that they've made. And a lot of times I'll kind of get on that soapbox. When, when we talk about helping say the homeless in America or something of that nature, because so many times we see decisions, patterns in lives that people will not abandon. Basically sin that they will not avoid. Um, but when you get somewhere in a third world country, you come to the realization that, uh, that the people, they, they lack their basic needs because of where, basically where they live. Uh, the, you know, uh, there's a higher authority that's, uh, oppressing them or, uh, you know, mistreating them. And just the, the blessing that you get when you go, when you go somewhere and you tell those, you tell the people that, that are hurting. They, um, you know, maybe they lack hope. I say lack hope, but man, a lot of the people that we see in some of the most desperate situations, they have more hope than we have. And they, they have a hope in eternity that, um, I think a lot of us fail to ever grasp, uh, just this great hope that they have. But, uh, when, uh, when, when we get to show up in, in the village with the, with the mud huts and the, the tin roofs and just simply say, you know, we're, we're here, we're here to serve you in Jesus's name. We're here to glorify God. Uh, for those that are believers, that's a huge encouragement. If those that are not believers, it plants a seed and they begin to think, well, who, who is this Jesus? And who, who, who is this God that sent these people to help me when they, they didn't have to. And so, um, you know, so you can, uh, you, you can pray for us. You can participate. You can go with us. Um, I, I like what we do because you don't have to be a theologian. You, you don't have to, uh, you don't, you don't have to be a preacher. Anybody in your church is willing to go. Uh, we, we do have some qualifications. We won't get into all that here, but, uh, we, we prefer for it to be Christians. I don't want to be traveling with, with atheists or, uh, any, anything that is a lifestyle that's contrary to scripture. Uh, but it's just simply being a Christian is that's, that's the prerequisites to go with us. Uh, and then of course, you know, everybody's not allowed the, the luxury of getting to travel. And so you can definitely support us, um, and, and just allow us to do more work because we, uh, you know, the, the potential is, is always there to be able to do more. And, and, and a lot of times we, we run into those financial barriers, man. We wish, we wish we could do that. We wish we could participate here. Uh, we wish we could, could bless more folks there. Uh, so, so definitely you can, uh, you can contribute financially to what we do as well. Uh, you can jump on our website and click, click on the give button and. Um, choose, choose your designation. If I think everybody kind of knows, knows that drill. It's great. One of the things that, uh, I do appreciate about United Christian missions. And, um, I was at, uh, the other, one of the other fantastic mission trips I went on was to India. Uh, got in justice, Ben. Well, who is now with Lord. Um, he passed away a couple of years ago, uh, but he had planted about a thousand churches in India. And all of those churches were local raised up pastors in from India and from their region. Um, and, and, uh, that's, I believe if I'm speaking correctly, United Christian missions the same way. They're all local pastors, all people that have been raised up through the ministry or through their area of their village and been trained up. And so I appreciate that. I think that's a great, sometimes, uh, an American stepping into a foreign country, uh, there's a disconnect there where someone who is like them about them from that same area, understands them, understands their language can reach a whole lot more than someone who's an outsider coming in. Yeah. You know, I think that for every church out there that doesn't do international missions, that there, there are churches, there are many more churches that do have a heart for international missions. And, uh, you know, I, just like James said that as Southern Baptist church, we give to the Southern Baptist cooperative. It's a good thing. It's one of the fastest ways to get missionaries on the field, but it's so impersonal because, you know, being raised independent Baptist, we had, we had personal relationships with our missionaries. And that's why I think it's important, especially for a Southern Baptist church to not only give to the cooperative program, but also to have their own missionaries. They support that they can know that they can pray for, that they can have a relationship with. And, uh, that's why I think it is important for churches to partner with organizations like United Christian Missions and just have a personal relationship there. Just like you're trying to have a personal relationship with these churches you're trying to reach to, you know, we, we are called as a people, as a church to go out into the highways and byways to bring them in. We're called to bring the gospel message to the world. We're called to go out and make disciples of the nations. You have a special calling on your life that I praise the Lord for. I'm excited to go with you, uh, in September, me and James are going to Nicaragua with you. We're getting, I'm getting a team together now. I can't wait for the Lord has what the Lord has prepared for us. So last question today, do you think Nicaragua is ready for three gingers? Like us, man, I don't, I don't know. You know, the there's, there's a lot of people don't understand, uh, the, the ginger nation, but, uh, it's, it's, it's real. There's something there. And I, and I won't get into a theological debate on if, or if not Dave King David was a ginger. Uh, but there, there is solid suspicion there. Uh, but I, I'm super excited about our trip. Um, I love the way you guys have grasped so quickly. It seems like I talked to so many people about our vision and, and it kind of slips through their fingers. But, you know, that, uh, that personal relationship, I feel like, uh, we've, we've missed, uh, you know, many of our, many people that claim to be believers. They, they, they don't have that personal, personal relationship with Christ. And, uh, you know, we're, we're supposed to have that relationship, uh, you know, restored with God through Christ, but then we're all supposed to have that relationship with one another to where it's, it's person to person. It's, it's not so impersonal that, that we just send a check or, or something of that nature. We get to know one another. We, um, we, we learn about our, each other's hardships. Um, it's, it's a two way street when we go on a trip because you're, you're going to bring, you're going to bring more back than we could possibly take down. And, uh, and I see that every time we go, um, you know, just, I had a leader in Honduras tell me one time, he said, brother, he said, don't, don't, don't worry about it so much. He said, you're the worm on the hook. And, and if we think about where scripture tells us, uh, to be humble, to be meek, um, you know, when, when we go down, we're, we're the worm on the hook. Uh, hope, hopefully we, uh, we're the bait, you know, as Americans, people are going to look and say, ah, look, they, you know, there's, there's some American. They may be looking at us being like, man, I've never seen redheaded folks before, but, uh, uh, you know, people are, it's going to grab some people's attention. They're going to pay attention. They're going to be watching what we do and, and it's going to improve the, the churches that we visit. They're going to have a larger platform for a short period of time that, um, you know, in hopes that, that they can reach more, you know, that, uh, the, the glory of God may abound. Right. You know, I have it on, uh, level to said, but I have it on great authority that, uh, King David was a ginger for the fact of it. The Bible does say that he had a heart after God. He had, uh, it was a heart after God's own heart, which means he had a gendered heart. You know, gingers have a special heart and a special relationship with God in that area. And so I appreciate you saying that. I appreciate all that you guys are doing and, uh, you taking, uh, taking these reigns at, uh, United Christian missions and stepping in for, David, I never got to meet David, uh, but we had several people from my former church that went down there and got to be a part of the missionary journey with him. And, uh, I've only ever heard great things. And so we're excited about partnering, uh, here in just a couple of months and going down with our team. And, um, I hope you guys are ready. And, uh, if you have any questions, Lee, if they, if anyone has any questions or wants to reach out to you, how can they reach you? Uh, is there an email or is there a website or, and we'll link all this in the show notes as well? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, any, anybody's welcome to, to call me on my cell, uh, 704-472-2734. Um, you can check us out on our website at unitedchristianmissions.org. So that's christianmissions with an S dot org. Um, and then you, you can email me at L Howell at unitedchristianmissions.org. Perfect. We'll put all that in the show notes and, uh, look forward to that. Thank you again for coming on today and, uh, taking a little small portion of your time out of your day. And, uh, until next time to God, not the pastor, be the glory. Found my new name, found that good grace, found that healing and the tears fell down my face. When I found my beginning that has no ending, found that second chance, found my best friend, Found my forgiveness, found my happiness, I've been singing ever since, I found my freedom in you. Thanks for listening to the For Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast platform you use. 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